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	<title>Comments on: Is Sony Going to be the Digital Kodak?</title>
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	<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/07/is-sony-going-to-be-the-digital-kodak</link>
	<description>Photo/video thoughts from the largest rental house</description>
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		<title>By: Kevin Purcell</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/07/is-sony-going-to-be-the-digital-kodak/comment-page-1#comment-17004</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Purcell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 22:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=7984#comment-17004</guid>
		<description>To follow up on what Mike S said: a lot of the large companies with huge patent holding have patent cross-licensing agreements

They do this so they can avoid the sort of problem that you see with patent disputes. The larger your patent holding (in the same field as another company B) the more likely it is if company A accuses company B of patent infringment that company B will search through their patent portfolio and find a interpretation of a company B patent that company A is infringing. Either at that point they decide to settle and cross-license or they go to court (usually if there are other strategic factors involved ... see Apple vs Samsung).

For Sony and Nikon there are lots of patents and lots of fields to collide in: lens design; sensor design and technology; AF tech; VR/OSS tech, etc.

The step up from meere cross-licensing is an OEM relationship where you buy product from another company (using their tech) designed to your specs.

The next step is technology cooperation (which goes both ways) to develop tech that&#039;s of interest to both companies with each contrinuting particular tech to the design which then may be more widley licensed or just used by the two companies involved.

Nikon clearly is working with Aptina too (Nikon 1) and is current shipping the D7000 with a Sony sensor and the P7100 (and probably the upcoming P7200 too). Some of the Nikon designed sensors may be a mix of Nikon tech (the basic design approach) and particular licensed Sony and Aptina tech. Without Nikon telling us we can&#039;t know.

Another thing to keep in mind is dyes used in the Bayer filters are different across difference sensors and different manufacturers. You could take a straight OEM Sony sensor design and ask for your own (patented) dyes to be used in the filters. A perfect mix of tech.

But one thing seems clear: Sony are building the sensors camera designers want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To follow up on what Mike S said: a lot of the large companies with huge patent holding have patent cross-licensing agreements</p>
<p>They do this so they can avoid the sort of problem that you see with patent disputes. The larger your patent holding (in the same field as another company B) the more likely it is if company A accuses company B of patent infringment that company B will search through their patent portfolio and find a interpretation of a company B patent that company A is infringing. Either at that point they decide to settle and cross-license or they go to court (usually if there are other strategic factors involved &#8230; see Apple vs Samsung).</p>
<p>For Sony and Nikon there are lots of patents and lots of fields to collide in: lens design; sensor design and technology; AF tech; VR/OSS tech, etc.</p>
<p>The step up from meere cross-licensing is an OEM relationship where you buy product from another company (using their tech) designed to your specs.</p>
<p>The next step is technology cooperation (which goes both ways) to develop tech that&#8217;s of interest to both companies with each contrinuting particular tech to the design which then may be more widley licensed or just used by the two companies involved.</p>
<p>Nikon clearly is working with Aptina too (Nikon 1) and is current shipping the D7000 with a Sony sensor and the P7100 (and probably the upcoming P7200 too). Some of the Nikon designed sensors may be a mix of Nikon tech (the basic design approach) and particular licensed Sony and Aptina tech. Without Nikon telling us we can&#8217;t know.</p>
<p>Another thing to keep in mind is dyes used in the Bayer filters are different across difference sensors and different manufacturers. You could take a straight OEM Sony sensor design and ask for your own (patented) dyes to be used in the filters. A perfect mix of tech.</p>
<p>But one thing seems clear: Sony are building the sensors camera designers want.</p>
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		<title>By: Frozen I</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/07/is-sony-going-to-be-the-digital-kodak/comment-page-1#comment-16010</link>
		<dc:creator>Frozen I</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2012 01:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=7984#comment-16010</guid>
		<description>I see someone had the typo &quot;censor&quot; for &quot;sensor&quot; - I find that amusing because &quot;censor&quot; has two meanings: the person who decides what you are allowed to see, and an incense holder/burner (often used in religious ceremonies. Makes me imagine an element in my digital camera which is blocking me from shooting certain images, or burning incense in a prayer to &quot;get the shot&quot; :)

Yes, I&#039;m thinking too hard about a single letter typo...

I don&#039;t regret buying a D800E, although I would have loved an option to get the same sensor in a Canon 1 series body (I have a lot of Canon glass already). Unlikely that I&#039;ll ever get the chance. Not like being able to choose whose film went into my SLR...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see someone had the typo &#8220;censor&#8221; for &#8220;sensor&#8221; &#8211; I find that amusing because &#8220;censor&#8221; has two meanings: the person who decides what you are allowed to see, and an incense holder/burner (often used in religious ceremonies. Makes me imagine an element in my digital camera which is blocking me from shooting certain images, or burning incense in a prayer to &#8220;get the shot&#8221; <img src='http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Yes, I&#8217;m thinking too hard about a single letter typo&#8230;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t regret buying a D800E, although I would have loved an option to get the same sensor in a Canon 1 series body (I have a lot of Canon glass already). Unlikely that I&#8217;ll ever get the chance. Not like being able to choose whose film went into my SLR&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mike S.</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/07/is-sony-going-to-be-the-digital-kodak/comment-page-1#comment-14070</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=7984#comment-14070</guid>
		<description>I think something that has to be considered is that Nikon Precision (the division that makes the semiconductor stepper equipment that makes sensors) has a very big customer: Sony. And Nikon is one of Sony semi-conductor divisions biggest customers. There is, from what I hear, quite a bit of technology exchange between the two; something that isn&#039;t very common in the USA, but happens more frequently in Japan. Thus, I think the success of the D800 is not just Sony; it&#039;s a product of what has worked out to be a very successful relationship between the two companies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think something that has to be considered is that Nikon Precision (the division that makes the semiconductor stepper equipment that makes sensors) has a very big customer: Sony. And Nikon is one of Sony semi-conductor divisions biggest customers. There is, from what I hear, quite a bit of technology exchange between the two; something that isn&#8217;t very common in the USA, but happens more frequently in Japan. Thus, I think the success of the D800 is not just Sony; it&#8217;s a product of what has worked out to be a very successful relationship between the two companies.</p>
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		<title>By: TomH</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/07/is-sony-going-to-be-the-digital-kodak/comment-page-1#comment-13981</link>
		<dc:creator>TomH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=7984#comment-13981</guid>
		<description>I also hope other manufacturers take note of the low noise of Sony sensors, especially at low ISOs. I have an Olympus SLR that is about 7 years old now, and the Kodak CCD in it has visibly lower noise than almost all new cameras, even those with larger sensors. It&#039;s terrible above ISO 100, but that low noise at low ISO is what I need for the photography I do.

The reason I have not upgraded in all that time is because I&#039;m waiting for a camera with 2 main things: A sensor with low noise at base ISO, and EFCS (electronic first curtain shutter). Both are needed for macro photo stacking because any noise is greatly amplified (even with filtering), and without EFCS the shutter mechanism bounces the camera so much at higher magnifications that there&#039;s no way to get a sharp image. This is frustrating because Canon only use their own sensors which have too much patterned noise at base ISO, but have EFCS, and Nikon because they use the great Sony sensors, but do not have EFCS.

However, it looks like the Sony nex-5n has both a good sensor and EFCS. That&#039;s why I&#039;m looking into buying one: Because they put these 2 features that make better pictures into the same camera, which is more than anyone else has done in the better part of a decade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also hope other manufacturers take note of the low noise of Sony sensors, especially at low ISOs. I have an Olympus SLR that is about 7 years old now, and the Kodak CCD in it has visibly lower noise than almost all new cameras, even those with larger sensors. It&#8217;s terrible above ISO 100, but that low noise at low ISO is what I need for the photography I do.</p>
<p>The reason I have not upgraded in all that time is because I&#8217;m waiting for a camera with 2 main things: A sensor with low noise at base ISO, and EFCS (electronic first curtain shutter). Both are needed for macro photo stacking because any noise is greatly amplified (even with filtering), and without EFCS the shutter mechanism bounces the camera so much at higher magnifications that there&#8217;s no way to get a sharp image. This is frustrating because Canon only use their own sensors which have too much patterned noise at base ISO, but have EFCS, and Nikon because they use the great Sony sensors, but do not have EFCS.</p>
<p>However, it looks like the Sony nex-5n has both a good sensor and EFCS. That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m looking into buying one: Because they put these 2 features that make better pictures into the same camera, which is more than anyone else has done in the better part of a decade.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Dove</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/07/is-sony-going-to-be-the-digital-kodak/comment-page-1#comment-13167</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Dove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2012 18:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=7984#comment-13167</guid>
		<description>You missed a direct analogy between Kodak and Sony:  Sony&#039;s recent sensors are lauded for their low noise, even at low ISO, while Kodak was (as far as I know) the leading manufacturer of ... low-noise sensors.  Their KAF line has been used extensively in research-grade astronomical and histological cameras for years, with Sony and a European company I can&#039;t recall right now also grabbing some of the action.  We&#039;ll see how well their Truesense spinoff (http://www.truesenseimaging.com/products/full-frame-ccd) can carry on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You missed a direct analogy between Kodak and Sony:  Sony&#8217;s recent sensors are lauded for their low noise, even at low ISO, while Kodak was (as far as I know) the leading manufacturer of &#8230; low-noise sensors.  Their KAF line has been used extensively in research-grade astronomical and histological cameras for years, with Sony and a European company I can&#8217;t recall right now also grabbing some of the action.  We&#8217;ll see how well their Truesense spinoff (<a href="http://www.truesenseimaging.com/products/full-frame-ccd" rel="nofollow">http://www.truesenseimaging.com/products/full-frame-ccd</a>) can carry on.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Stivers</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/07/is-sony-going-to-be-the-digital-kodak/comment-page-1#comment-13006</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Stivers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2012 00:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=7984#comment-13006</guid>
		<description>Please, please Sony, do trade sensors to Nikon in exchange for e-mount glass.  Sony releases &quot;e&quot; lens at a glacial pace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please, please Sony, do trade sensors to Nikon in exchange for e-mount glass.  Sony releases &#8220;e&#8221; lens at a glacial pace.</p>
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		<title>By: TRV</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/07/is-sony-going-to-be-the-digital-kodak/comment-page-1#comment-12930</link>
		<dc:creator>TRV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2012 15:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=7984#comment-12930</guid>
		<description>The problem for Sony is that unlike for Kodak and film, the sensor is not the high value-added part of the camera sale and, as Roger correctly points out, there is no ongoing transaction with the end customer.  This wouldn&#039;t matter if Sony cameras were also market-share leaders, but they&#039;re not (being a distant third to Canon and Nikon).  

Whilst Sony evidently feel they are onto a good thing with their SLT and NEX cameras, I&#039;ve yet to be persuaded that they have a &quot;killer app&quot; that will win buyers over.  This could be the Exmor sensors, but their semiconductors division seems happy to sell the &quot;crown jewels&quot; on to the highest bidder.  Sony is currently struggling for direction and not in the best financial state.  Whilst I am sure that they appreciate the income from sensor sales, I would implement a policy of &quot;if you want a Sony sensor, you need a Sony camera&quot; (remember the iPhone commercials on TV?).  It&#039;s unlikely that Sony will cut-off third-party manufacturers, as this is not the Japanese business culture.  

Sony need to succeed in imaging, as they have stated that they are staking a large part of their future strategy upon growth in this area.  Many people think that Kodak failed because they stuck their heads in the sand with regard to the digital revolution and failed to exploit their early lead.  This is partly true, but selling digital sensors would never have been a big enough market to support a company the size of Kodak.  

I think that Sony need to think carefully about their vertical position in the market, they need to be market leaders in cameras and camera phones, not just sensors.  This means recreating the premium brand image that Sony used to enjoy in consumer electronics, but has now lost to Apple and others.  I believe that taking back proprietary technology into their own product lines would help achieve this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem for Sony is that unlike for Kodak and film, the sensor is not the high value-added part of the camera sale and, as Roger correctly points out, there is no ongoing transaction with the end customer.  This wouldn&#8217;t matter if Sony cameras were also market-share leaders, but they&#8217;re not (being a distant third to Canon and Nikon).  </p>
<p>Whilst Sony evidently feel they are onto a good thing with their SLT and NEX cameras, I&#8217;ve yet to be persuaded that they have a &#8220;killer app&#8221; that will win buyers over.  This could be the Exmor sensors, but their semiconductors division seems happy to sell the &#8220;crown jewels&#8221; on to the highest bidder.  Sony is currently struggling for direction and not in the best financial state.  Whilst I am sure that they appreciate the income from sensor sales, I would implement a policy of &#8220;if you want a Sony sensor, you need a Sony camera&#8221; (remember the iPhone commercials on TV?).  It&#8217;s unlikely that Sony will cut-off third-party manufacturers, as this is not the Japanese business culture.  </p>
<p>Sony need to succeed in imaging, as they have stated that they are staking a large part of their future strategy upon growth in this area.  Many people think that Kodak failed because they stuck their heads in the sand with regard to the digital revolution and failed to exploit their early lead.  This is partly true, but selling digital sensors would never have been a big enough market to support a company the size of Kodak.  </p>
<p>I think that Sony need to think carefully about their vertical position in the market, they need to be market leaders in cameras and camera phones, not just sensors.  This means recreating the premium brand image that Sony used to enjoy in consumer electronics, but has now lost to Apple and others.  I believe that taking back proprietary technology into their own product lines would help achieve this.</p>
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		<title>By: Esa Tuunanen</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/07/is-sony-going-to-be-the-digital-kodak/comment-page-1#comment-12922</link>
		<dc:creator>Esa Tuunanen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=7984#comment-12922</guid>
		<description>XQD is huge amount better memory card format than completely overhyped Shit Digital.
Being based to well documented computer data bus gives it proper flexibility for future. Already 2010 finalized PCI-E v3.0 upped data rate to gigabyte per second and devices/hosts are backwards compatible.
And storage capacity limit would be same as for computer storage devices. And we all know how computer HDDs got limited to 128GB... Which was actually limit in first 17 years old CF specification which has since then been flexibly extended along with Parallal-ATA standard.

For comparison every new specification of MMC/SD has broken compatibility with older hosts.
And physically flimsy SD is inconveniently small to handle (don&#039;t even want to think about handling it outside at winter) and small physical volume also prevents putting more memory chips in &quot;RAID 0&quot; for lot faster read/write performance and capacity with same memory tech.

So I&#039;m sure hoping Sony or someone else pushes XQD down the throats of average consumer dummies who don&#039;t know a shit even if they fall on their faces into it  when marketroids just tell them that it&#039;s the latest fashion trend food!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>XQD is huge amount better memory card format than completely overhyped Shit Digital.<br />
Being based to well documented computer data bus gives it proper flexibility for future. Already 2010 finalized PCI-E v3.0 upped data rate to gigabyte per second and devices/hosts are backwards compatible.<br />
And storage capacity limit would be same as for computer storage devices. And we all know how computer HDDs got limited to 128GB&#8230; Which was actually limit in first 17 years old CF specification which has since then been flexibly extended along with Parallal-ATA standard.</p>
<p>For comparison every new specification of MMC/SD has broken compatibility with older hosts.<br />
And physically flimsy SD is inconveniently small to handle (don&#8217;t even want to think about handling it outside at winter) and small physical volume also prevents putting more memory chips in &#8220;RAID 0&#8243; for lot faster read/write performance and capacity with same memory tech.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m sure hoping Sony or someone else pushes XQD down the throats of average consumer dummies who don&#8217;t know a shit even if they fall on their faces into it  when marketroids just tell them that it&#8217;s the latest fashion trend food!</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/07/is-sony-going-to-be-the-digital-kodak/comment-page-1#comment-12921</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=7984#comment-12921</guid>
		<description>Another Rochester native here.  Best quip I heard about Kodak is, &quot;they make their money on your BAD photos.&quot;  Meaning, every time you click the shutter, they get paid, regardless of whether it&#039;s a good photo or not.  Ponder that with our modern DSLR mindsets - after initial investments, every click is free to us! (except for maybe wearing out the shutter or needing more hard drive space).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another Rochester native here.  Best quip I heard about Kodak is, &#8220;they make their money on your BAD photos.&#8221;  Meaning, every time you click the shutter, they get paid, regardless of whether it&#8217;s a good photo or not.  Ponder that with our modern DSLR mindsets &#8211; after initial investments, every click is free to us! (except for maybe wearing out the shutter or needing more hard drive space).</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Owen</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/07/is-sony-going-to-be-the-digital-kodak/comment-page-1#comment-12884</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Owen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2012 10:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=7984#comment-12884</guid>
		<description>At least Memory Stick wasn&#039;t rammed down everyone&#039;s throat. However, is Sony now in a better position to XQD us all?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least Memory Stick wasn&#8217;t rammed down everyone&#8217;s throat. However, is Sony now in a better position to XQD us all?</p>
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