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	<title>Comments on: Autofocus Reality Part 3B: Canon Cameras</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras</link>
	<description>Photo/video thoughts from the largest rental house</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 17:33:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras/comment-page-3#comment-37941</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 May 2013 23:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=8458#comment-37941</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a long-time Canon owner and i refer myself to an advanced hobbyist.  How can i know which bodies perform closed-loop focus operations, which bodies have the ability to work with the rotation detectors, and which lenses actually have the sensors to support this finer focusing method?  I have some older lenses that I would assume will not have this capability, and some newer ones that I hope do.  Further (and this may need to be addressed separately), what about third-party lenses?  I happen to prefer Sigma when I&#039;m not finding what I need from Canon.
Thank You.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a long-time Canon owner and i refer myself to an advanced hobbyist.  How can i know which bodies perform closed-loop focus operations, which bodies have the ability to work with the rotation detectors, and which lenses actually have the sensors to support this finer focusing method?  I have some older lenses that I would assume will not have this capability, and some newer ones that I hope do.  Further (and this may need to be addressed separately), what about third-party lenses?  I happen to prefer Sigma when I&#8217;m not finding what I need from Canon.<br />
Thank You.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Cicala</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras/comment-page-3#comment-36363</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Cicala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Mar 2013 19:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=8458#comment-36363</guid>
		<description>Dave,

My previous career (well, one of them) was in technical writing: 5 books and uncounted chapters and articles. You can probably tell by my grammer how much I miss having a full-time editor. 
Unfortunately, my writing style was 1) set a deadline 3 months from now, and 2) realize 2.5 months from now that I hadn&#039;t done doodly on the article due in two weeks. I need more structure :-)


Roger</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave,</p>
<p>My previous career (well, one of them) was in technical writing: 5 books and uncounted chapters and articles. You can probably tell by my grammer how much I miss having a full-time editor.<br />
Unfortunately, my writing style was 1) set a deadline 3 months from now, and 2) realize 2.5 months from now that I hadn&#8217;t done doodly on the article due in two weeks. I need more structure <img src='http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Roger</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Sucsy</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras/comment-page-3#comment-36360</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Sucsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Mar 2013 18:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=8458#comment-36360</guid>
		<description>Roger, 

You&#039;re a gem and a genius! You make all this geeky stuff fun, funny, and even useful!!!
I can&#039;t thank you enough!

If you ever tire of being a lens geek and businessman, there is undoubtedly a great future for you in technical writing, science fiction, or comedy!

Oh. One other thing. If you get bored and need something to do, I&#039;d like to see equivalent information on the Nikon D800/e system and lenses. And the reason for Stonehenge.

Thanks!

Dave</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger, </p>
<p>You&#8217;re a gem and a genius! You make all this geeky stuff fun, funny, and even useful!!!<br />
I can&#8217;t thank you enough!</p>
<p>If you ever tire of being a lens geek and businessman, there is undoubtedly a great future for you in technical writing, science fiction, or comedy!</p>
<p>Oh. One other thing. If you get bored and need something to do, I&#8217;d like to see equivalent information on the Nikon D800/e system and lenses. And the reason for Stonehenge.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Dave</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Cicala</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras/comment-page-3#comment-36350</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Cicala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Mar 2013 16:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=8458#comment-36350</guid>
		<description>Wilba, I don&#039;t, really don&#039;t, want to debate semantics. If by closed you mean there is at least one follow up reading, with extrapolation of data gained from secondary readings then that&#039;s correct. 

If you mean there&#039;s is some confirmation reading that says &quot;this is the correct point&quot;, then I disagree. Phase detection by principle is less accurate the closer it gets to the focus point. Unlike contrast detection, it does not choose a &#039;best reading&#039; point. 

There are at least 3 control loops inside a lens, and at least 1 inside a camera. But the overall behavior depends on settings, camera, lens, and a host of other factors including light temperature, strength, others. I&#039;ll add that there&#039;s also a differentiation in lens feedback in different systems and even within system in different lenses. Nikon uses at least 4 different types of position sensors. Canon at least 3. Making a blanket statement that is supposed to cover a gear driven lens with perhaps 700 steps and an older magnetic sensor and also cover a USM driven lens with 3500 steps and a new optical position sensor is making a very, very broad statement indeed. 

I don&#039;t absolutely disagree - you may well be correct. But I fear you&#039;re trying to paint a gray picture black and white and I&#039;m hesitant to do that. I&#039;ve seen to many conflicting patents and too much conflicting data cloaked in too much corporate secrecy to be comfortable with that. 

But in the interest of not arguing let&#039;s just assume you&#039;re correct and there is a closed feedback loop. If so it&#039;s a fairly inaccurate closed feedback loop, and an inaccurate closed feedback loop isn&#039;t all that different from a semi closed loop in behavior. 

Roger</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wilba, I don&#8217;t, really don&#8217;t, want to debate semantics. If by closed you mean there is at least one follow up reading, with extrapolation of data gained from secondary readings then that&#8217;s correct. </p>
<p>If you mean there&#8217;s is some confirmation reading that says &#8220;this is the correct point&#8221;, then I disagree. Phase detection by principle is less accurate the closer it gets to the focus point. Unlike contrast detection, it does not choose a &#8216;best reading&#8217; point. </p>
<p>There are at least 3 control loops inside a lens, and at least 1 inside a camera. But the overall behavior depends on settings, camera, lens, and a host of other factors including light temperature, strength, others. I&#8217;ll add that there&#8217;s also a differentiation in lens feedback in different systems and even within system in different lenses. Nikon uses at least 4 different types of position sensors. Canon at least 3. Making a blanket statement that is supposed to cover a gear driven lens with perhaps 700 steps and an older magnetic sensor and also cover a USM driven lens with 3500 steps and a new optical position sensor is making a very, very broad statement indeed. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t absolutely disagree &#8211; you may well be correct. But I fear you&#8217;re trying to paint a gray picture black and white and I&#8217;m hesitant to do that. I&#8217;ve seen to many conflicting patents and too much conflicting data cloaked in too much corporate secrecy to be comfortable with that. </p>
<p>But in the interest of not arguing let&#8217;s just assume you&#8217;re correct and there is a closed feedback loop. If so it&#8217;s a fairly inaccurate closed feedback loop, and an inaccurate closed feedback loop isn&#8217;t all that different from a semi closed loop in behavior. </p>
<p>Roger</p>
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		<title>By: Wilba</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras/comment-page-3#comment-36309</link>
		<dc:creator>Wilba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Mar 2013 03:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=8458#comment-36309</guid>
		<description>Since I left a message in August 2012 clarifying that the Ishikawa patent is talking about the control loop _inside_the_lens_ (not the control loop inside the camera), I&#039;ve tested the EOS 650 (the first EOS, from 1987), and found that it behaves exactly the same as contemporary cameras. So it&#039;s simply false that &quot;They used to be open.&quot; EOS has always been a closed-loop AF system, as are Nikon&#039;s, Pentax&#039;s, and Sony&#039;s similar systems. See http://www.dpreview.com/articles/5402438893/busted-the-myth-of-open-loop-phase-detection-autofocus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since I left a message in August 2012 clarifying that the Ishikawa patent is talking about the control loop _inside_the_lens_ (not the control loop inside the camera), I&#8217;ve tested the EOS 650 (the first EOS, from 1987), and found that it behaves exactly the same as contemporary cameras. So it&#8217;s simply false that &#8220;They used to be open.&#8221; EOS has always been a closed-loop AF system, as are Nikon&#8217;s, Pentax&#8217;s, and Sony&#8217;s similar systems. See <a href="http://www.dpreview.com/articles/5402438893/busted-the-myth-of-open-loop-phase-detection-autofocus" rel="nofollow">http://www.dpreview.com/articles/5402438893/busted-the-myth-of-open-loop-phase-detection-autofocus</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Shaner</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras/comment-page-3#comment-31855</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Shaner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2013 00:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=8458#comment-31855</guid>
		<description>I recently purchased a Canon 8-15mm F4L fisheye lens and 85mm F1.8 lens for use with my 5D MKII body. I spent quite a bit of time adjusting the autofocus microadjustment with both lenses using various techniques, followed by actual in-field tests for real-world focusing accuracy. What I discovered is that both of these lenses achieve better SD by first manually focusing the lens to a slightly closer focus setting, and then letting the camera autofocus. This is also the case with my Canon 17-40mm F4L lens across the zoom range, which I just received from the Canon Repair depot after an extensive rebuild.

SD results with these lens manually set past infinity before autofocus showed far more inconsistency, sometimes front focusing, and then sometimes and back focusing. The amount of microadjustment required using this “closer” pre-autofocus manual adjustment is much less as follows:

8-15mm F4L    -2
85mm F1.8     +4
17-40mm F4L +3

Using this procedure I can achieve very good accuracy and repeatability with the 85mm @ F1.8, which has a very small depth of field. There are some misses for sure, but it’s general due to the phase detection system failing to properly detect and lock on the subject area I’m focusing on due low contrast area and/or edge definition.

I thought I would pass this on to get your thoughts and see if this is something you’ve run across during your testing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently purchased a Canon 8-15mm F4L fisheye lens and 85mm F1.8 lens for use with my 5D MKII body. I spent quite a bit of time adjusting the autofocus microadjustment with both lenses using various techniques, followed by actual in-field tests for real-world focusing accuracy. What I discovered is that both of these lenses achieve better SD by first manually focusing the lens to a slightly closer focus setting, and then letting the camera autofocus. This is also the case with my Canon 17-40mm F4L lens across the zoom range, which I just received from the Canon Repair depot after an extensive rebuild.</p>
<p>SD results with these lens manually set past infinity before autofocus showed far more inconsistency, sometimes front focusing, and then sometimes and back focusing. The amount of microadjustment required using this “closer” pre-autofocus manual adjustment is much less as follows:</p>
<p>8-15mm F4L    -2<br />
85mm F1.8     +4<br />
17-40mm F4L +3</p>
<p>Using this procedure I can achieve very good accuracy and repeatability with the 85mm @ F1.8, which has a very small depth of field. There are some misses for sure, but it’s general due to the phase detection system failing to properly detect and lock on the subject area I’m focusing on due low contrast area and/or edge definition.</p>
<p>I thought I would pass this on to get your thoughts and see if this is something you’ve run across during your testing.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras/comment-page-3#comment-31825</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 18:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=8458#comment-31825</guid>
		<description>Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Cicala</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras/comment-page-3#comment-31778</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Cicala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 14:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=8458#comment-31778</guid>
		<description>David, part IV has Nikon cameras. I think the bottom line is the Canon 5D III and 1D4 have the most accurate AF, but other than that I don&#039;t think there&#039;s a difference between Canon and Nikon. And, of course, that&#039;s just still AF, I don&#039;t have any information at all about servo type AF.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, part IV has Nikon cameras. I think the bottom line is the Canon 5D III and 1D4 have the most accurate AF, but other than that I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s a difference between Canon and Nikon. And, of course, that&#8217;s just still AF, I don&#8217;t have any information at all about servo type AF.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras/comment-page-3#comment-31749</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 13:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=8458#comment-31749</guid>
		<description>Really appreciate this thank you. I&#039;m about to replace our 5Dmk2s with 5DMk3s in our photography studio (for Tv lenses we still use humans ;) 
I&#039;m personally interested in focus speed because I want to upgrade from Sony&#039;s new Nex6 with &quot;hybrid autofocus&quot; to a Nikon D5200 or Canon T4i in the hope that a cheap camera and decent lens will give quicker AF.. Do you have a similar test including Nikon cameras? I&#039;m just not sure what to get in this instance. Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really appreciate this thank you. I&#8217;m about to replace our 5Dmk2s with 5DMk3s in our photography studio (for Tv lenses we still use humans <img src='http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
I&#8217;m personally interested in focus speed because I want to upgrade from Sony&#8217;s new Nex6 with &#8220;hybrid autofocus&#8221; to a Nikon D5200 or Canon T4i in the hope that a cheap camera and decent lens will give quicker AF.. Do you have a similar test including Nikon cameras? I&#8217;m just not sure what to get in this instance. Thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: Panurus</title>
		<link>http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras/comment-page-3#comment-30222</link>
		<dc:creator>Panurus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 08:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/?p=8458#comment-30222</guid>
		<description>Have you a list of the lens with rotation detector?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you a list of the lens with rotation detector?</p>
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