Geek Articles

More Ultra High-Resolution MTF Experiments

GEEK ALERT!!

Let’s be absolutely clear; this is not a practical or useful article. It won’t help your photography or cinematography become better. It won’t help you choose equipment any time in the next couple of years. It won’t provide any fodder for your next Forum War. It’s just a geek article that may interest some people. It may give a little peek into what may come in the future, and some insight into the kind of work we’re actually doing behind the scenes at Olaf. So if you’re interested in that kind of stuff, read along

A couple of years ago, a testing customer asked us to find which lenses could get maximum resolution from a 150-megapixel sensor. Many people assumed that the highest resolving lenses at standard resolutions would be the highest resolving lenses at higher resolutions. Assumptions are the dark matter of the internet; we can’t see them, but we know they account for most of the mass.

We try hard not to assume, so we tested a bunch of lenses at high frequencies on the MTF bench (high-frequency MTF is basically high resolution on the camera). This requires testing MTF at ultra-high resolutions, way higher than any camera of today. The manufacturer wanted 240 lp/mm (compared to the 50 lp/mm we use currently). I wasn’t sure that was necessary, and actually wasn’t sure we could do it, so we settled on 200 lp/mm. If you want some understanding of what all that means, you can read the above post or Brandon Dube’s excellent post. Or you can just accept it and move on.

There was no photo or video lens that could resolve 200 lp/mm wide-open. (Our standard for ‘resolve’ was an MTF 0f 0.3; an MTF of 0.2 was borderline. There’s some evidence to support those cut-offs, but someone could argue them. Wait, this is the internet. Someone WILL argue them; it’s what someone lives for.)

We did find several prime lenses that could meet those criteria stopped down to f/4 in the center of the image, but none could near the edges. The best results were for the Zeiss Otus 85mm f/1.4 lens at f/4. A few other lenses (Zeiss 135mm f/2 APO-Sonnar; Sigma 135mm f/1.8 DG HSM Art; Zeiss 55mm f1.4 Otus) were acceptable at f/4 in the middle portion of the image. Nothing wider than 50mm was really acceptable, although the Canon 35mm f1.4 Mk II and Sigma 35mm f/1.4 Art were close.

Back to the Future

Two years later, that customer asked us if we knew of any other lenses that they should consider. There’ve been a lot of lenses released since we did these tests, and some of those lenses fit the criteria for possible ‘ultra-high’ resolution; primes with focal lengths of 85mm or more. The manufacturers are obviously making these lenses with at least moderately higher resolution cameras in mind. So perhaps some of the newer lenses would resolve ‘ultra-high’ frequencies better than some of the older lenses we had tested.

So we checked some new lenses all the way up to 240 lp/mm, something sufficient to make a 200 megapixel FF camera worthwhile. To be clear, this is NOT coming to a camera near you anytime soon; it’s a research project. But if the researchers are making such a sensor, it makes sense they want to know which lenses would get the best results from the sensor. It is not a test for if the lens or sensor out resolves the other, because that doesn’t happen.  (For those of you who believe in perceptual megapixels or that the earth is flat, I’ve included an appendix to clarify this a bit – with no math more complicated than multiplication.)

The Best We Found Last Time

Last time we found some tendencies: longer focal lengths perform better, and f/4 is the minimum aperture that any lens can resolve such high frequencies. To give you a reference, here are several lenses that met our criteria last time (notice on these we set the highest frequency at 200 lp/mm).

Sigma 135mm f/1.8 DG HSM Art at f/4

Lensrentals.com, 2017

Zeiss 85mm APO-Planar Otus at f/4

Lensrentals.com, 2017

Zeiss 55mm Otus Distagon at f/4

Lensrentals.com, 2017

Canon EF 35mm f/1.4 Mk II USM

Lensrentals.com, 2017

The 35mm Lens Whose Name Cannot Be Spoken

You’ve seen the best results we had from lenses you could actually buy and use. We did see one lens that you can’t purchase, a prototype lens that will probably never be made, that was truly amazing, particularly for a 35mm focal length.

Olaf Optical Testing, 2017

So here is a 35mm lens that is as good as the 55m Otus; it’s that it’s this good at f/2.8 and doesn’t improve much at f/4. I put this up just to show that current lenses are not designed to do their best at ultra-high resolution, but they could be.

 We Wanna Take it Higher

Last time around, we set our peak at 200 lp/mm, even though the client really wanted 240 lp/mm. We didn’t think the higher number was really necessary, and honestly, we weren’t sure that any of our lenses would adequately resolve even 200 lp/mm. This time, though, we felt comfortable we could test at 240 lp, and doing that, let us also test at 192 lp/mm, which is pretty close to the original 200 lp peak.

For starters, we repeated the test using a Sigma 135mm f1.8 Art. You can compare it to the one done at 200 lp up above. Remember, these are single copy tests, so there is a little sample variation, but you can see the light blue line of this run (192 lp/mm) is comparable to the purple line of the previous lens (200 lp/mm). Even at 240 lp/mm, the MTF still exceeds our ‘borderline’ MTF cut-off of 0.2, at least in the center, but it doesn’t quite reach and MTF of 0.3.

Lensrentals.com, 2019

We’ll consider this our standard for the new tests, then, and see if any of the other lenses do as well.

Results for New Lenses

Sony 135mm f1.8 GM

We’ll start with the usual “Roger had expectations and was disappointed” part, because, after all, disappointment is the sole purpose of expectations. One of the reasons I was excited about testing new lenses was that the Sony 135mm f/1.8 GM had the best normal-range MTF scores we’d ever seen, besting the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art. It seemed logical that it might also best the Sigma in ultra-high resolution tests. Reality 1, Logic 0. We tried the lens at f/4, but it was actually a bit better at f/5, which we show below. At high frequency, it’s not as good as the Sigma.

Lensrentals.com, 2019

Let me repeat, for those of you who want to mistake this test as having something to do with, say, the 60-megapixel full-frame camera you’re shooting; it doesn’t. Somewhere around 80 lp/mm would be more than sufficient for that. If you compare the orange lines of the Sony and Sigma 135mm graphs, you’ll see that at 96 lp/mm the Sony is actually a bit better than the Sigma. At ridiculously high frequencies, the Sigma is better. The takeaway message is important: better MTF at one frequency doesn’t mean better MTF at all frequencies.

So let’s look at a couple of other candidates I thought might do really well.

Sigma 105mm f1.4 Art at f/4

Even though this copy was slightly tilted, in the center, at least, it is the first lens to make, albeit barely make, our ‘acceptable’ cut-off of MTF 0.3 at 240 lp/mm. At 192 lp/mm, it actually touches MTF of 0.4. So we have a new high-resolution champion, and that’s despite, as you can see below, this copy of the lens having a slight tilt.

Lensrentals.com, 2019

Zeiss APO Sonnar 100mm f/1.4 Otus at f/4

Another good contender; not quite as good as the Sigma 105mm, but very similar to the Sigma 135mm.

Lensrentals.com, 2019

Canon 90mm f2.8L TS-E Macro

This one I had low expectations for, but we had one handy, so we thought we’d give it a try. Set your expectations low, and they will be met. Again, don’t get me wrong, this is a really, really good lens, it’s just not as good at ultra-high resolutions.

Lensrentals.com, 2019

Sigma 40mm f1.4 Art

We learned from earlier testing that wider-angle lenses don’t do as well at these frequencies. But the Sigma 40mm Art tested so spectacularly at normal MTF that we thought it was worth a shot, at least.

Lensrentals.com, 2019

Here’s a case where good at normal resolution translates to good at ridiculously high resolution. This is close to, although not quite as high in the center as the Otus 55mm. It stays acceptable further away from the center than the Otus 55mm does, however.

Summary:

I say summary, because there are no practical or useful conclusions to be made. The only thing of interest, probably, is that only really good lenses can resolve ultra-high resolutions you’ll never need. However, even among these really good lenses, you can’t assume how a lens will perform at ultra-high resolutions based on its results at normal resolutions. You can also see that ultra-high-resolution performance is a bit easier to obtain in short telephoto focal lengths than in standard or wide-angle lengths.

Oh, yeah, and you can also wonder why someone, somewhere, is wondering what lenses will perform well at resolutions more than twice as high as what you might need today.

 

Roger Cicala, Aaron Closz, and Brandon Dube

Lensrentals.com

October, 2019

Appendix: Why Perceptual Megapixels are Stupid

I get asked several times a week if this lens or that is ‘capable of resolving’ this number of megapixels. Some people seem to think a lens should be ‘certified’ for a certain number of pixels or something. That’s not how it works. That’s not how any of it works.

How it does work is this. Any image you capture is not as sharp as reality. Take a picture of a bush and enlarge it to 100%. You probably can’t see if there are ants on the leaves. But in reality, you could walk over to the bush (enlarge it if you will) and see if there are ants by looking at a couple of leaves.

What if I got a better camera and a better lens? Well, theoretically, things would be so good I could see the ants if I enlarged the image enough. MTF is somewhat of a measurement of how sharp that image would be and how much detail it contains. (The detail part would be the higher frequency MTF.) That would, of course, be the MTF of the entire system, camera, and lens.

Lots of people think that will be ‘whichever is less of the camera and lens.’ For example, my camera can resolve 61 megapixels, but my lens can only resolve 30 megapixels, so all I can see is 30 megapixels.

That’s not how it works. How it does work is very simple math: System MTF = Camera MTF x Lens MTF. MTF maxes at 1.0 because 1.0 is perfect. So let’s say my camera MTF is 0.7, and my lens MTF is 0.7, then my system MTF is 0.49 (Lens MTF x Camera MTF). This is actually a pretty reasonable system.

Now, let’s say I get a much better camera with much higher resolution; the camera MTF is 0.9. The system MTF with the same lens also increases: 0.7 X 0.9 = 0.63. On the other hand, I could do the same thing if I bought a much better lens and kept it on the same camera. The camera basically never ‘out resolves the lens.’

You could kind of get that ‘perceptual megapixel’ thing if either the lens (or the camera) really sucks. Let say we were using a crappy kit zoom lens with an MTF of 0.3. With the old camera; 0.3 X 0.7 =.21. Let’s spend a fortune on the newer, better camera, and we get 0.3 X 0.9 = 0.27. So our overall system MTF only went up a bit (0.07) because the lens really sucked. But if it had been just an average lens or a better lens (let say the MTF was 0.6 or 0.8), we’d have gotten a pretty similar improvement.

If you have a reasonably good lens and/or a reasonably good camera, upgrading either one upgrades your images. If you ask something like ‘is my camera going to out resolve this lens’ you sound silly.

Roger’s rule: If you have either a crappy lens or crappy camera, improve the crappy part first; you get more bang for your $. I just saw a thread for someone wanting to upgrade to the newest 60-megapixel camera, and all of his lenses were average zooms. I got nauseous.

Author: Roger Cicala

I’m Roger and I am the founder of Lensrentals.com. Hailed as one of the optic nerds here, I enjoy shooting collimated light through 30X microscope objectives in my spare time. When I do take real pictures I like using something different: a Medium format, or Pentax K1, or a Sony RX1R.

Posted in Geek Articles
  • Juan BD

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/12c8451a7056b5389f7f877c62212f79dc8f03a9f5901f75598d57198c72cd58.jpg

    A little copy and paste here, just to illustrate the Sigma 135, in particular, and 105 Art performance. I see that these two lenses get better and better as you stop them down. Looking at the results at f1,8 MTF 50 and comparing them with the MTF48 curve at f4 published in this post, I can only say WOW DG HSM ART (a long name not to joke). What amazes me most is the big boost in sharpness at the midfield and border frame when stopped down. Sigma is really producing very fine instruments in the recent years (waiting anxiously for the MTFs of the new Sigma 14-24 f2,8 DG DN).

    On the contrary and not less impressive, the Sony 135 GM lens remains almost unchanged when stopped down in the center and outer part of the frame. This lens, from my own experience, gives everything it has to offer when it is fully wide open yet, which is exceptional and the reason why I own it. All in all, the Sigma 135 Art is maginificent, same as the 105 Art.

    Thanks a lot for your blog and optical tests.

  • Brandon Dube

    You know how you can find pictures of Siemens’ stars with a null on them of zero contrast (aka contrast inversion?) That means the MTF hits zero at some frequency, and then isn’t zero anymore at higher frequencies. You can have the same thing, but without hitting zero (i.e., reaching some local minimum).

    The “why” for /why/ that can happen is more complicated and involves Fourier transforms of complex-valued functions that only a computer can solve, but humans can intuit about.

  • Brandon Dube

    Depth of field reduces (loosely speaking) with the square of the frequency. 200 lp/mm has 1/16 the depth of field of 50 lp/mm (or so).

  • Dragon

    If in that hypothetical 200 MP camera I suggested above the null is moved to .5 or a tiny bit below, then there will be no aliasing at the pixel level and the potential for color aliasing at the quad level will be substantially reduced (i.e. the raw converter will have an easier time guessing). I completely agree that you can get more resolution out of a Bayer grid than the quad, but that improvement comes with a guarantee of uncertainty that is not always desirable. BTW, I have a 5DSR and just added a 90D. The 90D has the lowest visible aliasing of any Bayer camera I have seen so far and it still has very good resolution. It will be interesting to see what Canon’s next high res FF looks like.

  • Your system resolution determined by the sensor’s point spread function (PSF) convolved with the lens’s PSF. Convolving two quantities is equivalent to multiplying their Fourier transforms and then inverse Fourier transforming the result. An optical transfer function (OTF) is the Fourier transform of an image, and an MTF (like what Roger shows above) is the absolute value of an OTF. So multiplying the MTF of the lens by the MTF of the sensor, as Roger suggests, is the correct way to do the math.

  • Nick Podrebarac

    Unless you want to accurately map the pores on a person’s cheek, then by all means go for the 60mp.

  • Nick Podrebarac

    Not just cameras, but every piece of equipment is a compromise. If camera systems have taught me anything, the trick is to find the equipment whose compromises least affect your use case…then find anyone who comes to a different conclusion on the internet and shout them down in a peurile manner.

  • DrJon

    While I’m being a little naughty googling “A SIMPLE MODEL FOR SHARPNESS IN DIGITAL CAMERAS AA” then avoiding the “- Defocus” result and going to Figure 7 in the “- AA” result could be interesting… noting Nyquist is at 0.5.

  • DrJon

    I see my post full of links failed to appear, so I’m guessing I shouldn’t post any links in this one. However while it’s a little old now if you search for dr_jon and “5dsr moire reduction from raw (automatic and manual)” you might see some of the results I got…
    You can certainly get more resolution from Bayer than a pixel per quad though, so you’re throwing resolution away doing that unless you’re way into diffraction softening.

  • Roger, thanks for these fascinating posts! I wonder if you or Brandon can clarify something for me: i thought combined resolution numbers were not simply multiplied, but have to be added in inverse squares (or some other power depending on how the rest of the system behaves). So system MTF (S) derived from camera MTF (C), and lens MTF (L) would be:

    1/S^2 = 1/C^2 + 1/L^2

    Brandon, congrats on JPL. La Canada and Pasadena are really great places that I remember fondly from my college days, especially when there’re no more stage 1 smog alerts like we had in the 90s!

  • Samuel H

    I’m using your MTF tests to make a list (for my personal use only) of good and great lenses, both at normal and high resolutions (20 and 50 lp/mm). My score can be “not good”, “good”, and “great”. Among the lenses that score at leas one “good” somewhere, in 28% of the cases, my score at 20 lp/mm is different from the one at 50 lp/mm. 50% would mean “you can’t learn much about 50 lp/mm by looking at 20 lp/mm results”, so, basically halfway there…

  • Dragon

    Yes, the AAF roll-off leaves a lot be desired. It is basically sin/x (which means it comes back after the null) because of the lack of negative coefficients in the filter (we just haven’t figured out how to get those pesky darkons to do our bidding). Still, a well placed AAF is often useful. As to different raw converters helping, I haven’t seen much difference with respect to pixel level aliasing, but some do a much better job of guessing color out of the Bayer grid. Given the limitations of the Bayer grid, a 200 MP camera actually makes a lot of sense since that is really only 50 MP in Bayer pixel terms. There may be little or no detail at the individual pixel level, but that is actually good from an aliasing perspective. A logical design would be for the camera to unwind the Bayer grid and then produce a 50 MP RAW file with all the RGB values (only 25% smaller than the 200MP original, but very nice to work with and essentially alias free.

  • I’m sure Zeiss sells them at a reasonable price. 🙂

  • The MTF charts we usually us in the 10-lens average articles go from the center (0mm on the left side of the graph) to the edge (20mm) on the right side.

    These single lens MTF graphs are straight out of the machine. They go from one edge (-20mm) to the other edge (+20mm) with the center (“0) in the center.

  • Just for the record, I can’t say what it’s not. But as the article stated, it’s not a lens that you can buy, or will be able to buy.

  • There’s even a worse thing: at ultra high res focusing becomes ultra critical. On the bench, we can screw things up by letting it find best focus at 30 lp (the default) because best focus at 150 or 200 lp may be significantly different. Basically like focus shift for aperture.

    I didn’t look at field curvature on these, but my guessing-game thought is given how fast these fall off (by 4-6mm away from center) that is before you really start to see much field curvature. Still, a good point and very possible.

  • This will need to be answered by Brandon Dube. Because he understands ‘why’. I’m a ‘what’ guy.

  • On a more serious note, can you reiterate where exactly in the image area these tests are performed? I’m a bit confused by these two-sided MTF charts.

    In other news, I tried photographing Andromeda with the A7R4 and the 135 GM, but it was too humid and there was too much moonlight, so I didn’t see crazy amounts of detail. Need to try again on a clear, dry, dark night and see what happens. That 135 is just nuts wide open at f/1.8…

  • Can I get that Zeiss Otus 55 graphic on a T-shirt, please? Thanks. 😛

  • Dave Hachey

    Considering what you get, modern lenses aren’t that outrageously priced, but that’s a subjective matter. The only time I ever winced at purchasing a lens was when I bought a big white Canon telephoto. It cost several times what I paid for my first car (a ’67 Mustang).

  • Dave Hachey

    Yep, the AF system is a marvel to behold. This really is a wonderful camera, but I suspect not for everyone.

  • User Colin

    Remember that today’s 50+MP full frame sensors have similar pixel pitch (4µm) to a bog standard 24MP APS-C camera that many people have been using for years. And while you might say that 24MP APS-C only uses the middle sharp centre crop, to render the same print size it needs magnified more than 50MP FF.

    Very satisfying results can be achieved with a cheap APS-C 50mm prime lens on a 24MP APS-C camera. So, rather than reaching towards some limit, FF has merely achieved parity with what entry-level photographers have used for years. But apparently FF needs a lens costing £1000+ rather than £100+.

    The latest lenses are I’m sure technological marvels. But they are darned expensive.

  • DrJon

    Not really as the AA filters all roll-off quite smoothly in real life, starting well before Nyquist, so:
    (i) You lose detail as it’s smoothing that too.
    (ii) You still get aliasing as it doesn’t cut off sharply.
    If I put links to stuff this will get nuked, alas…

  • Claudia Muster

    Newest rumour: Roger Cicala says that there’s a a 200 megapixel FF camera in the works which will outresolve every existing lens. Stay tuned!

  • DrJon

    Moire is perhaps more lens+atmosphere+AA-filter out-resolving the Bayer array, and the de-bayering algorithm not handling it well…
    Also pixels are distinct and lens resolution is smooth-ish as it tails off, so aliasing in general can occur. Sometimes this looks better than not having it. Sensor MTF is odd at the limits due to the discreet nature of pixels.

  • DrJon

    Interesting point, would real-World photos where the subject has more of a variable depth look a lot better than the results suggest?

  • Speaking of system-level resolution, I’d be interested to see how teleconverters fit into this system. They capture the strong center of optical performance, and they introduce their own weaknesses. Could we learn something about how high-resolution lenses do or don’t translate through decent teleconverters? Especially when lens resolution seems to already exceed camera resolution at the system level?

  • It would. But resolution would improve much more if you improved the weak link.

  • Franz Graphstill

    Having only used my A7R IV for a few weeks, mostly with the 135 GM (which is a good match for it), for me the best feature of that combination is the marvellous eye AF system. I am getting extremely good AF results, even at 100%.

  • Norbert Windecker

    I would like to see the new Leica APO Summicron Series in the test.

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