Assumptions, Expectations, and Plastic Mounts
Photography companies love catchword marketing. They like catchwords because photographers make assumptions about what those words mean, even though the words really don’t mean anything. So basically, they say nothing, but it makes you believe something.
Two of my favorite examples are “professional quality construction” and “weather resistance”. When I read those terms, my brain translates them to “Blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah.” They are subjective terms, just like ‘elegant design’ and ‘innovative styling’.
Most photographers, though, make all kinds of assumptions about what those catchwords mean, and have all kinds of expectations about the equipment that is described by these largely meaningless bits of marketing. We all know what Oscar Wilde said the word assume really means. Expectations, of course, are simply a down payment on future disappointment.
I have watched several world-class internet meltdowns with great amusement recently. All were started when photographers found out that their assumptions and expectations about what catchwords meant were wrong. They became a firestorm when people added a lot of ‘facts’ that weren’t really facts.
Plastic Mounts and Professional Construction
Much of the recent internet rioting was triggered by some Olympus 12-40 lenses that broke off at the plastic mount (the mount is the internal part of the lens where the bayonet — the metal part that twists into the camera — attaches by several screws). Several people reported their lenses broke at the mount with minimal force applied (a short fall or even pressure from other items in a camera bag). We ship those lenses all over the country and they seem no more likely to break than any other lens we stock. But apparently at least some of them had a weak mount.
What amused me was the absolute fury expressed by numerous photographers that a “professional quality” lens might have a plastic mount. I’ve looked up the term ‘professional quality’ everywhere and nowhere have I found it defined as ‘having an all-metal mount’. But some people are livid that it isn’t so. If you’ve read one of these posts on the internet lately, you’ve learned all kinds of things… none of which are true.
- Most micro 4/3 lenses have metal mounts (they don’t – only one does that I recall).
- All ‘professional quality’ lenses have metal mounts (they don’t, not even close to all do).
- Micro 4/3 lenses and NEX lenses all have plastic mounts, but ‘real’ SLR lenses have metal mounts (not true on either side of the comma).
- Plastic mounts are only used on cheap kit lenses and have only appeared in the last few years (They’ve been around for a long time on many lenses).
- Lenses with plastic mounts break more frequently than lenses with metal mounts (Nothing suggests this).
I take apart lenses all day every day, so I was rather amazed to find all these facts spoken so dogmatically by people who claimed them to be absolutely true. I make it a rule never to argue with people who claim absolute knowledge, no matter how wrong they are. But I will occasionally show them pictures. So here are some pictures of the mounts of lenses that Aaron and I took apart for various reasons this morning.
Canon 35mm f/1.4 L lens. Released in 1998 (15 years ago), considered a Professional Quality lens, and certainly carrying a professional quality price. It has a plastic mount. In fact, we keep that mount as a stock part because we have to replace it every once in a while. It doesn’t break often, but we have hundreds of them and they do break once in a while.

Panasonic-Leica 45mm Macro Elmarit f/2.8 m4/3 lens. I won’t argue about whether it’s a Professional lens, but it’s really good, really reliable, and quite expensive. It has a plastic mount despite online claims otherwise.

Sony 50mm f/1.8 NEX lens. Again, I’m not arguing Professional here, but this one is widely mentioned in the forums as ‘all-metal construction’. It has a metal shell, just like the Olympus 12-40mm, but the support pieces are plastic and the mount screws into plastic, just like the Olympus 12-40mm.

Canon 14mm f/2.8 Mk II L. I don’t think anyone argues this is a Professional Quality lens at a very professional cost. An ultra-reliable lens, but it certainly has a plastic mount. Not that we ever have to replace them. They never break here despite being far larger than the Olympus 12-40mm.

Canon 24-70 f/2.8 L Mk I. A professional lens released in 2002. It weighs about 2 pounds; far larger than any two micro 4/3 lens combined. It is generally referred to as a tank because it never breaks (it has optical problems, but those occur at the front end, which is, oddly enough, entirely made of metal). The plastic mount never breaks despite holding up 2 pounds of lens. Trust me on that, we’ve carried hundreds and hundreds of these for years and never had a mount break. (As an aside, the Mk II version has a metal mount, despite being lighter. I’m not sure why.)

The Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 VC lens. I include this one just for completeness, because it’s another large lens and at least one online authority has stated it has a metal mount. Sorry, there’s no metal back there at all.

Attention Fanboys: Just because your favorite lens isn’t shown here doesn’t mean it doesn’t have plastic mounts. Lenses of 70-200 f/2.8 size and up all have metal internal mounts (as best I can recall), but lenses smaller than that may be either metal or plastic. All Zeiss ZE and ZF SLR lenses have metal internal mounts (but not Zeiss-designed lenses for other brands). Nikons are more likely to have metal mounts than other brands, but they have a fair amount of plastic-mount lenses, too. Otherwise, the majority of lenses have internal plastic mounts.
Does it make any difference? I looked at the Lensrentals’ reliability data for the last several years (several thousand repairs), and there’s no higher failure rate with plastic mount lenses. They have, if anything, a bit lower failure rate, but it’s not a significant difference.
When a plastic mount does break, people tend to freak out a bit because the lens is so obviously broken. From a repair standpoint, though, we love them. It takes 15 minutes to replace a broken plastic mount and the lens is as good as new. Metal mount lenses don’t break like that. Instead internal components and lens elements get shifted and bent. It can take several hours to return one of those to optical alignment.
So What Does It Mean?
Absolutely nothing except that internet hysteria is alive and well. By my latest count, during the last two weeks 7,216 internet experts have claimed it is an absolute fact that plastic internal mounts are a new, cheap, poor quality substitute for internal metal mounts. The pictures above suggest otherwise.
The pictures show that for many years lots of very large, very high-quality, professional-grade lenses have had plastic internal mounts. Guess what? They didn’t all self destruct. In fact several of them are widely considered particularly rugged. Looking at 7 years worth of data involving around 20,000 lenses I can’t find any suggestion that plastic mount lenses, in general, fail more than metal mount lenses. Sure, there are certain lenses that fail more than others, but not because they have a plastic mount.
In theory, plastic mounts might be better, worse, or no different than metal as far as reliability goes. There are logical arguments for each.
Obviously a few Olympus 12-40mm lenses have broken at the mount. It may be there was a batch of badly molded mounts. It may be a design flaw. It may just be random chance – a few of everything break. But it’s not just because the mount is plastic.
I do like taking this opportunity to remind everyone that marketing catchwords like ‘Professional Grade’ mean very little. If they say it has 16 megapixels they’ve told you a fact. If they say ‘Professional Grade’ that’s a word with no clear definition. It probably means ‘built better than some of our cheap stuff’.
Speaking of Catchwords
As long as we’re on the subject of catchwords, it’s probably worth tackling ‘Weather Sealed’ or ‘Weather Resistant’ next. Many people seem to believe that means ‘waterproof’. When you take lenses apart all day you find out it usually means ‘we put a strip of foam rubber behind the front and rear elements and scotch tape over the access holes under the rubber rings’.


It’s better than no weather sealing, certainly. And some (but not all) ‘weather sealed’ lenses also have internal gaskets around barrel joints and other added bits seals. But I haven’t seen one manufacturer yet tell us exactly what weather their lens is sealed against. Snow? Rain? Sunshine? Wind? Well, it can’t be wind because the lenses we spend the most time taking dust out of are mostly ‘weather sealed’.
It’s very different with different manufacturers. You can assume whatever you like, but when you send your lens in for repair, ‘weather sealed’ still means ‘the warranty doesn’t cover water damage’.
The truth is, terms like Professional Grade and Weather Resistant are nearly as vague as ‘innovative technology’ and ‘stylish design’. I’m certain it’s only a matter of time before I see an online post that says, “I bought this camera because the manufacturer said it had stylish design, but it’s butt-ugly. I think we should start a class-action lawsuit for false advertising”.
Roger Cicala and Aaron Closz
Lensrentals.com
December, 2013
124 Comments
Rick ·
Hi guys,
Another kudos for a really cool article. I think this is probably the most informative piece of article that I’ve read in all of 2013! Yes, it goes to show how little deference the self-claimed “internet authorities” deserve.
Happy new year!
Rick
jseliger ·
In theory, plastic mounts might be better, worse, or no different than metal as far as reliability goes. There are logical arguments for each.
Gun forums have the same arguments: at some point (I think in the ’80s), manufacturers like Glock began making guns from plastics instead of metal. This caused all sorts of hysteria among gun nuts, and it continues to this day despite the lack of evidence that guns with some plastic parts are any worse than guns without them. The guns with plastic parts are certainly lighter, however.
And guns obviously undergo a lot more stress than cameras or lenses.
PaulB ·
Roger
Thanks for such a well written article that goes to the point of expectations. Though going one step further even the terms plastic and metal are also generic and prone assumptions and false expectations, based on where they are used.
From an engineering sense unless we are told the type of metal or plastic and it series, or alloy, number, and how it was formed we simply don’t know what we are getting. For example an aluminum part made from a 7075-T6 forging will be a lot stronger than the same part made from a 1000 series casting; though both may be strong enough for a given use. We have the same situation in the world of plastics with nylon based plastics being different than polycarbonate, but both may be adequate for a given use.
Of course, what I have listed above it still not enough information to know anything. Which brings us back to your point, the marketing people tell us what they want and we decide what we think it means.
PaulB
Ryan ·
Do you see any signs of metal or plastic wearing out from many lens swaps? Do either get looser over time?
Roger Cicala ·
Ryan, we don’t see it very frequently, but when we do it seems to be more about wear on the metal mount itself: the flanges can get a bit loose but the mount itself almost never.
Bruce Rubenstein ·
I think when most people refer to a metal/plastic mount, they are referring to the material used for the bayonet, and not what the bayonet is attached to.
Besides making repair of the lens simpler, a sacrificial, designed break point also helps to keep the camera body from being damaged.
FYI, one of the folks who had their 12-40/2.8 break was sent a new lens that appears to have been shipped directly from Olympus. This was interesting, because Olympus USA outsourced their camera repair to Precision Camera in CT. It looks like Olympus is looking into what ever the issue (breaking from minimal impact) is with the lens. I personally suspect that the breakage is not due to an inherent design flaw in the lens, but a non-conforming part, or assembly problem.
ahsanford ·
I didn’t know that Canon’s 35L had a plastic mount.
I’ve rented one from you that is metal, and I thought there was only that original design for the 35 F/1.4L USM — was this a running design change? did they start as plastic and then switch to metal?
Just curious.
Roger Cicala ·
The flanges that attach to the camera are always metal except in a very few, very odd lenses. Generally they are referred to as the bayonet mount. What the screws from that ring attach to are what we are discussing today.
The actual lens optical elements attach to the mounting flange via either a plastic or metal mount.
ahsanford ·
I rescind my prior question. So you are defining ‘lens mount’ as the **supports for the terminal mating feature** that attaches to the camera and not the terminal mating feature itself?
Most I’ve seen online (perhaps in ignorance) would define the lens mount as that terminal mating feature, but regardless, it’s fascinating to see what’s *behind* that feature. I own the Canon 24-70 F/2.8L I you reference, and I’m fairly certain I could use it (attached to a body) as a tool to forge other metal objects with. It’s a beastly piece of kit.
Thanks for the good read! Fascinating as always.
CarVac ·
Roger, you missed the point that most people never take their lenses apart, and thus never ever refer to the internals as “the mount”.
Some of the claims you cited would certainly be truer if you evaluate them this way.
Most m43 lenses have metal bayonets.
All “professional quality” lenses have metal bayonets.
[the third one is false]
[the fourth one is false]
Plastic bayonets break (or wear out) more often than metal bayonets. [I don’t know if this is true or not, but it’s certainly plausible]
Roger Cicala ·
Carvac, I don’t disagree – but the online screaming has been that the Olympus 12-40 has a plastic mount and that is unacceptable. It’s bayonet is, of course, obviously metal but the screws go into a plastic mount. This has been what all the fuss is about.
Max ·
No one did this yet ? Oh well…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSxihhBzCjk
BH ·
Interesting post, thanks Roger. There seems to be a pervasive idea that plastic = cheap and metal = quality. I suppose this is rooted in the idea that things used to be made to a higher standard, and fewer things were plastic circa half a century ago. “My M3 still works perfectly sixty years later while my Canon plastic fantastic broke after a year!”
I’m no engineer, but I suppose there is a ton of research into why using plastic may be *better* than metal. Perhaps someone reading this could elaborate?
Andrew ·
I agree fully that internet “experts” run wild when incidents like the 12-40mm happen and usually have very liitle facts or knowledge to back up their assumptions. However whether its plastic or metal there still seems to be a potential design flaw to the 12-40mm mount which shouldn’t be discounted due to some “experts” going off on a tangent. If the claims of breakage with little force are true then perhaps its a poor choice or bad batch of plastic, or too short or over tightened screws. Also do some lenses mounts provide more lateral support than others (in other words don’t fully rely on the screws only to take any side loads?)
Leo Tam ·
It’s like everyone’s other favorite argument: PC vs Magnesium bodies
The chassis is a metal/composite- the exterior doesn’t really matter
Leica M’s (well M1-M6, not sure about the M7 and up) have a metal mount on a metal body, but the way it’s mounted, you can give the front of the camera a nice firm squeeze and throw the focus off a bit
Aaron ·
I thought plastic/metal mounts were the flange that get’s pushed into the lens mount and twisted (i.e. the flanges).
Charles Lanteigne ·
Many years ago (I was, relatively speaking, just starting photography) I had bought a 70-200mm 2.8 IS lens. I had managed to get field-level access to shoot a football game and I was very excited, but when the day came, it was raining. Not just little droplets—it was *pouring*.
I put a plastic bag around my camera, held in place with a rubber band close to the mount (so I could still lift the plastic and look on the screen if needed). I was confident that the lens didn’t need protection, since it was “weather sealed”!
I’ve never been this completely drenched in my life, standing in that kind of rain for over an hour. At one point, one of the seasoned photographers was looking at me with inquisitive eyes, since I had no protection on the lens whatsoever (he was shooting under an umbrella attached to his backpack or something). It didn’t even cross my mind that there could be something wrong with what I was doing, since I was confident it was designed for this kind of thing.
Absolutely nothing happened to the lens—it’s still working perfectly to this day, years later. But looking back at what I did, oh god… I can now understand why the other photographer was looking at me. I would obviously not recommend anybody doing this, but it worked just fine for me that one time.
That being said, the language used by the manufacturers is not just marketing filler, it could very well have cost me the lens.
A ·
Well said Roger!
Fully agree about people reading meaning into words without any meaning being behind them. I’d step back a level; and say my favourite word has to be “quality”; it’s totally meaningless without qualification.
Quality lens!
Yes, the lens has quality. Specifically the quality is “made of soggy cardboard”, but that’s a quality; right? 😉
Derek Dean ·
Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou. Finally some thoughtful and helpful comments on an obviously near hysterical over-reaction to a few reported mount breaks on the new Olympus 12-40mm f2.8 lens.
Who knows, there may actually be a design or manufacturing issue with the plastic mount in the 12-40, and it’s always good to report and discuss those issues, but as you pointed out, there was way to much wrong information being purported as fact, which only clouds the issue.
And thank you, Roger, for your thoughts on weather sealing and marketing hype. You are providing a wonderful service to our community with you first hand, professional observations.
A ·
Well said Roger!
Fully agree about people reading meaning into words where there’s no meaning to them. I’d step back a level; and say my favourite word has to be “quality”; it’s totally meaningless without qualification.
Quality lens!
Yes, the lens has quality. Specifically the quality is “made of soggy cardboard”, but that’s a quality; right? 😉
Tony ·
People tend to believe what they are prejudiced to believe. I’ve gotten tired of telling people that if there is no sealing performance specification cited, it simply isn’t sealed – end of story. You never see a camera manufacturer telling us that a given piece of gear meets the requirements of, for example, IP54 (at a minimum). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code
As for mounts, the geometries of the parts play at least as important a role as the material choice. That is too sophisticated a concept for most internet shouting matches. You were wise to bring up the subject of the load path (what one load-bearing piece is attached to next in the line). The deadliest structural collapse in US history provides an excellent example of what can happen when perfectly appropriate materials are used poorly: Google “Hyatt Regency walkway collapse 1981”.
SwampYankee ·
Great Article, thanks. I don’t really care what the mount is as long as it works. I’m intrigued by the weather sealed comments though. Do you get many lenses back that are weather damaged? If so how many are “weather sealed” that come back with water damage? thanks
Roger Cicala ·
Swamp Yankee, we get a fair number of cameras and lenses that come back water damaged – a couple a month or so. The majority are “weather resistant”. I assume that’s because people are more aggressive about letting them get wet.
iamclaus ·
Shame you don’t carry Pentax gear in your inventory… I’m curious to know how their definition of “weather resistant” lenses compares against the competition. In real-world terms, I can only vouch for the DA 18-55mm WR and DA* 50-135mm, knowing they can easily withstand being dunked and splashed repeatedly… (so far…)
Roger Cicala ·
iamclaus, we do carry Pentax gear. Not to mention I personally shoot a K3. And I have seen demonstrations of Pentax cameras and lenses under running water.
Which doesn’t change the fact that their warranty on weather sealed gear doesn’t cover water damage.
EnPassant ·
Thank you for the explaniton!
However all these nice photos does in fact support the conclusion that the Olympus 12-40 lens has a design flaw.
From the photos of a broken 12-40, http://www.mu-43.com/showthread.php?t=56256 the plastic mounts are just thick enough for the screws and not extra thick for added strength.
The only, loose support is the circuit board, which however doesn’t seem to support the top of the plastic screw-mounts, giving wiggle space and a breaking point.
The lenses in above photos having close to similar construction are all lighter and therefore doesn’t put as much stress to the mount when mounted on the camera.
The heavier lenses on the other hand either have thicker plastic around the screw hole or much better support for it.
While the broken lenses so far mostly may be odd exemples of bad material or something going wrong in the manufacture process the construction still doesn’t look strong enough for such a relative heavy lens. I therefore think Olympus should rework the circuit board to enable a more solid construction of the screw mount.
Geoff H ·
I quote… “But I haven’t seen one manufacturer yet tell us exactly what weather their lens is sealed against.” however standards do exist for weather/water proofing and whilst traditional lens makers don’t tend to use these standards there are manufacturers who do and I deal with a number of security camera makers who sell IP67 rated cameras, some of which have inter changeable lenses.
Toshik ·
It seems for me that:
1). People confuse terms bayonet and mount. As you can clearly see if bayonet is metal or plastic (in cheap lenses), you can’t see what mount is made of inside.
2). As for weather sealed i totally agree, except latest Nikon AW1 which is stated as waterproof down to 15 meters (49 ft), shockproof from up to 2 meters (6.6 ft), so you can definitely swim with it.
But we shouldn’t confuse waterproof and weather sealed which many people do.
Toshik ·
It seems for me that:
1). People confuse terms bayonet and mount. As you can clearly see if bayonet is metal or plastic (in cheap lenses), you can’t see what mount is made of inside.
2). As for weather sealed i totally agree, except latest Nikon AW1 which is stated as waterproof down to 15 meters (49 ft), shockproof from up to 2 meters (6.6 ft), so you can definitely swim with it.
But we shouldn’t confuse waterproof and weather sealed which many people do.
Ota ·
The mentioned internet experts overlook that plastics is not the same every time. Most people think automatically about the thin carrier bag from the supermarket or another throw-away cheap product when hearing about plastics. The same people have a big airplane in front of their inner eyes when speaking about a failsafe, lightweight and sophisticated metal construction.
These people probably don’k know the story of the first commercial (bad designed) all-metal jetliner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Comet. They also don’t know that a plastic composite is used as a primary airframe construction material in the Boeing’s 787 Dreamliner. And they have forgotten the number of the killed race drivers in the years before the plastic (composite) cockpits were introduced in F1 race cars. Not only the race cars, our every-day-cars are also much more safe than 30-40 years ago. The car bodies were made of welded steel in our fathers’ time. A lot of parts of today’s cars are glued together (primarily for safety) using a plastic adhesive. Not every innovation leading to an increased use of plastics is driven by economy alone, the new technology doesn’t make the cars cheaper.
The glue used in car body assembling is nothing else as a (properly applied) plastics. We use another platics for bags or pipes and another for airplanes or e.g. tanks in chemical plants. Still another brand of plastics can be the first choice in the lens construction. It’ll serve failsafe as far as the design is equally proper.
Not the question “Metal or plastics?” ist the the right one. The right question is: “Is the material selection AND the applied design approriate?” This AND is crucial, not the material alone.
John ·
“The truth is, terms like Professional Grade and Weather Resistant are nearly as vague as ‘innovative technology’ and ‘stylish design’.”
Perhaps this is one of the few exceptions, although speaking of camera, not lens …
Extract from Camera specifications manual …
Olympus OMD-EM1 …
Splash resistance … Type Equivalent to IEC Standard publication 529 IPX1 (under OLYMPUS test conditions)
Ben ·
I broke my 24-70 mkI at the mount if that helps. I may have slightly dropped it about 4 feet onto the ground while attached to the camera if I’m being honest 🙂
Paul ·
Brilliant information. Love this site’s pure fact-based articles.
Longtime photo enthusiast (since I was a kid who worked all summer long to buy a Canon A-1 film SLR) with little money to spend on photo equipment these days, sadly. But when that changes I will be all the better informed in my choices thanks to lensrentals.
Scott ·
“metal” and “plastic” are very generic terms. Unfortunately those on forums like to deal in absolutes. What needs to be evaluated are the properties of the actual material to be used. There absolutely can be a “plastic” material that has superior properties for the intended use over a “metal” material. This all part of engineering, selecting the material that has the combination of properties AND cost for the particular application.
Unfortunately this is lost on the dolts on the forums.
Timur Born ·
Thanks for the article, Roger!
Two things to mention here:
1) Regardless of supposedly mount issues some people were specifically not enamored by Olympus US site’s wording (claim) of “all metallic construction” when most of the lens is made of plastics. One might call it a catchphrase, but one might also call it lying. 😉
2) Olympus’ Toshi Terada explicitly claimed that you can still zoom the 12-40/2.8 when the zoom barrel is wet (by rain) without sucking in the moisture. He pointed to Olympus’ long experience with lens sealing from the FT line and funnily he also knew (and called crazy) that one Youtube video where someone dips a E-5 in hot brine water and then washes it off under the shower. So while Olympus don’t stand behind their sealing with a proper specification some of their folks and seemingly lots of users do trust their lenses quite a lot.
By the way, the catchphrase “cold resistant” of course doesn’t mean that the lens/body do keep out “cold”. According to Mr. Terada it means that they asked their engineers and suppliers to supply parts that can operate down to -10°C temps. When you think about it then this is the preferable way of doing it. 😉
amin ·
thanks roger & aaron
your articles are best!
Markus ·
Roger, do you have the feeling (or experience) that some lenses may actually have been designed having a “breaking point” to keep away damage from the camera?
Roger Cicala ·
Markus, I don’t know – I simply don’t know enough about stress engineering to say one way or another. But some lenses do seem to have a stress plate of plastic between the metal of the bayonet and a largely metal lens. It may be shock absorbing, a breaking point, or simply economics.
Berni ·
Hi Roger
Thank you for taking the time to write the article. I always really enjoy reading your work. Informative and interesting. Well done.
Berni
MarcG19 ·
Thanks, Roger! Very informative article and discussion.
Ed ·
I am one of those that have experienced a broken mount with the Olympus 12-40mm. I sent the lens back to Olympus USA for repair. Like you said, it was a quick fix and did not cost much to get it repaired. The circumstances surrounding my accident was that amera/lens got knocked off a table and hit a carpeted floor. As I think about it, had the mount not broken away there would probably have been more substantial damage to both the lens and the camera. As it stands, only the lens mount was damaged. The camera body (E-M5) sustained no damage whatsoever.
Joachim / CH ·
So, there IS a difference between “mount” and “bayonet”? Just asking as non-native speaker and because I see the term “mount” in combinations like “Nikon mount”, “Canon mount” – at least Zeiss calls their adaption to one of these brands “mount”. I wonder how much people would make a difference between mount and bayonet?
Speaking of Zeiss (not Sony-Zeiss): It’s quite easy to use more metal than plastics for their photographic lens, if
there’s no electric driven aperture
AF-drive and distance information for the camera
Integrated anti-vibration system
because all these features use integrated circuits and are powered electrically – therefore need to be insulated against shortening. So, making an “all metal (not metallic – plastics can be metalized) construction” would increase the weight, make fast AF nearly impossible and would still need plastic parts for insulation
There are plastics which cost much more than metal per weight unit. But still, the general term “plastic” indicates cheap, easy-to-break, low value parts. While “metal” stands for higher value and longer usage. Rubbish. But very easy to be put into marketing blah and so effortless to believe.
Doug ·
Great article Roger. I just rented an EM1 and the 12-40 from you for a week and enjoyed it very much, without incident. 🙂
You make a great, and obviously well informed point re: plastic vs metal.
But people jumping to the conclusion that the plastic is to blame for Oly 12-40 breakage is probably just frightened consumers wanting to find a reason for the reports. I’m glad to hear that you have not seen any issues with your stock of the 12-40. That would support the theory that there was a brief manufacturing problem or that a few of the components were faulty, but that the design is sound. As you point out, the components (plastic) are not the issue in general. Not knowing how many lenses were sold and delivered makes it hard to call this a trend, but wouldn’t you agree that the number is probably still relatively small (at least compared to other established favorites) and that the number of reported breakages is somewhat alarming? I have to admit, I was very keen to buy one (especially after spending a week with it), but have delayed purchase for a bit. Maybe I’ll just rent it again soon! 🙂
Matthias Welwarsky ·
Concerning the Tamron 24-70/2.8, the “mount” is certainly not the weak spot of this lens. I had one break in the bag while mounted on the camera and the mount held, but the lens nevertheless cracked open at the seam next to the focus ring. OK the bag fell down. OK, ok, it fell out from a baggage compartment in an overland bus. OK, the baggage compartment was right under the ceiling of the bus and you had to stretch quite a bit to put stuff inside 🙂
I think it was plain bad luck, anyway. But now I’m treating it like a raw egg 🙂
Paul ·
I’d love to know what is inside the Fuji lens Roger. Any idea in general? Given that you see so many lens in general, it would be very helpful to see your subjective assesment (coupled with your rough data of repairs) for different lenses! 🙂
Goblin ·
Roger, thanks again for yet another interesting article.
For what it’s worth – speaking of weathersealing – After a full day of shooting at a water park under splashes and flushes with my E-M5 + 12-50mm Zuiko lens setup, I still managed to drop it in a 3ft pool. It spent seven or eight seconds under water before I managed to retrieve it.
The camera took water in the memory card bay as well as the battery bay. It came gradually back to life after a few days in a bag full of rice. While it obviously took water, it didn’t take water at the mount, and the whole sensor area remained unaffected. It works great to this day.
As for the lens, which is the main reason I am mentioning this story at all – I simply wiped it, took it off, put it on my spare G3 and it went on running like if nothing happened. Just as the camera, it works fine to this day.
The 12-50mm must be to this day the most snobbed and disdained m43 lens, but it’s certainly not the least protected.
Stefan ·
HI!
I am one of the guys who who had the misfortune of getting a lemon when I bought the EM-1 kit with the 12 – 40 lens. I was so disappointed with the lens since it broke in my camerabag when I was out walking. I really love the optical qualities of the lens and I really want a sample I can trust. I don’t really care what the material in the lens is if it just works. Your fine article is getting my hopes up again. I left my lens with the shop and they sent it to Olympus in the first week of december. I got a preliminary date for the return of the lens at around the end of january or early february due to christmas, seems they need a tad more than 15 minutes for repair. It will be interesting to hear what the verdict will be. Also, the camera performs greatly and is hands down the most pleasing camera to shoot with that I have owned. Again, great article!
Cheers!
Stefan
Steve P ·
There are lenses with plastic bayonets out there…I have two of them: A Canon EF 28-80 that was the kit lens on my Rebel 2000 film body, and a Canon EF-s 18-55 that was the kit lens on my Digital Rebel XT.
On the Rebel 2000, the part that mates to the lens bayonet is also plastic. On the XT, that part is metal.
Bob ·
Roger, I don’t think that the issue is really whether the lens mountings are metal or plastic. The issue is a breech of faith. Olympus claimed this lens to be of “all-metallic construction.” Now maybe “metallic” is a weasel word, as opposed to “metal,” but the intended interpretation by consumers is clear.
Olympus lied. THAT’s what upsets people more than the use of plastic, I think. That, plus the fact that at least 3 samples have broken in exactly the same place. Plastic, properly engineered, is fine. There is a legitimate question whether this lens is properly engineered. There is no question that Olympus misled buyers.
You’ve done a fine job of proving your straw-man argument wrong, but not in proving that the disappointment over this lens is unjustified.
Roger Cicala ·
Bob, I certainly am not trying to say disappointment about the lens is unjustified. As I said in the article it may have a design flaw, there may be a bad batch of mounts, lots of things. I simply wanted to discount the very silly people who stated with absolute certainty that “any professional lens should have a metal mount” and “using plastic in the mount is something for just kit lenses”. As is usually the case, when people overstate their case and say they know ridiculous things “with absolute certainty” they just end up looking silly.
But I’ve heard different versions of the Olympus statement. If they just said it’s a metallic lens, I think that’s probably OK. If they said “All metal construction”, then I agree, they are lying. But truth is I think “weather sealing” and “Professional grade” are pretty much lying, too. A bit grayer, perhaps, but lying nonetheless.
Do I like the design? I don’t have an opinion, really. It’s too early. Let’s see how it does over a year or two. Is something wrong with the lens as released? Probably, but it may be fixed with something as simple as a longer screw with coarser thread.
Having been in this game a long time, I’ve gotten to expect the “early adapter is our beta tester” reality. Whether it’s D800 or 1D Mk III autofocus, D600 dust, flashes that burn out, or IS units that fail. If you wait in line to be the first one to get a brand new product, you’re taking a risk. It may be wrong that it’s that way, but it’s reality.
As an aside, when people really want something to scream about with Olympus, the repair service (well actually their lack of one in the U. S.) is a better place to start than their lens design. But it sounds like they’re fixing the problem at no charge (in their usual 45 days or so), which is the right thing to do.
Dan ·
Roger:
Interesting article, and I agree that the word “professional” doesn’t imply the type of material the product is made from. However, what I think has people upset is that, in this case, their lens broke quite easily without having been abused. Panasonic’s 12-35 f/2.8 has been around much longer, with many more in the field, and there have been no reports (at least none that I’ve seen), or ravings about it breaking from simply bumping the camera or case, with the camera in it. So, while people are certainly reading more into “professional” than should be implied by the word (to me it would imply higher IQ, but not that you can pound nails with the product), there may in fact be some design problem with this particular lens. This is especially of concern since the lens hasn’t been around very long and the numbers in circulation are much smaller than other m4/3 lenses.
Ian Anderson ·
Roger, the weather sealing “exposé” is epic! I’m not shocked, but it makes the 5DIII light leak taping seem pretty sophisticated!
KhunPapa ·
“Most micro 4/3 lenses have metal mounts (they don’t – only one does that I recall).”
Panasonic 25mm f/1.4
Panasonic 14mm f/2.5
Panasonic 35-100mm f/2.8
Olympus 45mm f/1.8
Never Ass-u-me 🙁
Roger Cicala ·
KhunPapa – I agree. Never assume.
The Panasonic 25 f/1.4, 14 f/2.5 and 45 f/1.8 are entirely mounted into plastic. The Panasonic 35-100 is also mounted into plastic, but there are thin metal sleeves inside of the plastic mount. The sleeves aren’t load-bearing, though, they simply are to receive the screws that hold the bayonet on.
Not sure where you got your information, but it sure wasn’t from taking the lenses apart and looking. It is incorrect.
Roger
KhunPapa ·
Second: You are right.
Weather Seal is NOT water resistant.
Water Resistant is NOT water proof.
The sealed metal ball is water proof and water resitant.
The diver’s wristwatch, underwater-class digital compact camera, or SUBMARINE, is water resistant, UP TO THE SPECIFIED PRESSURE. But it’s NOT water proof.
Weather-resistant camera is just that – weather-resistant. No more.
There is NO single word in the official manual of E-M1 or E-M5 which states that the camera is water-proof nor water-resistant.
In fact, the OFFICIAL manual even warn the owner that he/she must not leave the camera for a long time in the humind environment.
BUT, seem like no one reads that manual.
KhunPapa ·
Third : Plastic mount is plastic mount.
It’s not the same as those darn plastic screw holes which are subjected to shearing force or impact.
In the 12-40 owners’ photos, or your shown photos, you’ll see the broken plastic holes/screw. None the mount.
Even the mount were made from paper card board, when there’s impact, it will damage – none. The impact force will be transmitted to the screws and holes, cutting or ripping them out.
Olympus E-3 famous “separated LCD screen” is the clear cut evidence of the shameless Olympus Engineer’s design. Period.
Roger Cicala ·
KhunPapa – you are calling the mount what I refer to as the bayonet. Bayonet’s, with a very few exceptions are always metal. What they mount to inside of the lens is the lens mount. It can be either plastic or metal and is the part in question here.
Dan ·
Roger:
In your earlier response to a poster, you referenced poor Olympus service in the US. I’ve had the opposite experience. I sent my E-M5 in for service, because of exposure problems, and Olympus sent me a new one. Total round trip time was less than 10 days. I broke the shutter button off an E-PL5 and sent it to Olympus for repair and had it back within a week. Many years ago, I had an OM-2 that failed and I happened to be traveling near an Olympus repair center. I went it; showed it to them and told them I was on a trip. They went in the back, got a new one and handed it to me. I’ve had nothing but excellent experience with their US repair service.
Roger Cicala ·
Dan,
Remember earlier this year there was a 6 weeks period where there was no Olympus service department. It just closed and you couldn’t find out a thing about any gear they had. And there were lots of people freaking out: no one answered the phone or emails, etc. That’s way past unacceptable. So what happened many years ago has nothing today with Olympus today.
But I do applaud what they did with your new camera, and they are improving lately. Olympus seems to be taking a page from Sony: cameras and electronics are often replaced by a refurb or replacement quickly instead of repaired. But actual repairs, particularly with lenses, go out of the country to be fixed by a subcontractor, then returned. That’s usually a 30-45 day spin, easily the longest in the industry currently.
Roger
John Krumm ·
Great article, just love it.
About Olympus repair, I know your stats show them to be exceptionally slow. What’s strange is that so many of us Oly users in the various forums have not found that to be the case. I’ve sent in three repairs, two lenses and a body, and all were speedy. My last aperture fix a couple months ago took 3 days before they sent the lens back. The only thing that slowed it down was the cheaper UPS return shipping they used. Almost makes me wonder if they are putting commercial outfits like yours on the back burner.
Roger Cicala ·
John, that might well be the case. I will say they are improving the last 4 months or so, which is a good thing.
Rob ·
[[There are lenses with plastic bayonets out there…I have two of them: A Canon EF 28-80 that was the kit lens on my Rebel 2000 film body, and a Canon EF-s 18-55 that was the kit lens on my Digital Rebel XT.]]
We’ve followed the same path (photographically), I see, as I have both lenses and both cameras.
All the 18-55mm EF-S (non-IS and IS) lenses have plastic bayonets. All the versions of the 55-250mm EF-S do as well. And the Canon 50mm f/1.8 II.
I’d be willing to bet all the variations on those 28-(x)mm and 35-(x) kit lenses from the film days also have plastic bayonets.
I don’t think the kit lenses are really “very few” or “very odd” but as a percentage of the Canon lens lineup they appear to be the exception.
John Andrade ·
I think the complains about the mount quality of certain lenses was a confussion between the terms of “mount” and “bayonet” nobody doubt about the quality of the 35mm L, or the 17-40mm L that i personally have opened. Note that all those bayonets are metal. Very different of the 18-55mm or the 50mm f1.8
NuclearPiper ·
Roger, I agree that everyone is pretty much ignorant on lens construction, but you are taking a well-known idiom, “lens mount”, and redefining it to make it not include the bayonet. The bayonet and what is attaches to are collectively known as the lens mount. It’s a whole system, including the electronics, and not just a single piece.
However, most people use “lens mount” to just mean the bayonet. So, don’t be surprised when people use the word as such. Instead of trying to redefine the term you should have come up with a new one, like “lens mount chassis” or “lens mount base” or something. Then we could all talk about it with much less confusion because you wouldn’t be fighting against our internalized definition of “lens mount”.
What about lens mounts that don’t even have bayonets, like screw mounts? What do you call the threaded piece of metal on the lens? Everyone else calls it the “lens mount”. Semantics is a fun topic, and I could discuss it at length, but the short of it is this: if the vast majority of the population uses an term to mean one thing, and you use it to mean something else, you’re just going to cause confusion.
You, yourself, don’t even use the term consistently in your article. Just look at all of your image captions. In each one you say that the screw holes are where the “lens mount” screws in. Even *you* are calling the bayonet the “lens mount” in every image caption.
JJ G ·
“And some (but not all) ‘weather sealed’ lenses also have internal gaskets around barrel joints and other added bits seals.”
I appreciate the demystifying of the weather-sealing label and was wondering if you could do a more extensive post about it in the future. Specifically which lenses have the most or least seals while still being labeled as WR, and which lenses often come back with moisture damage, despite these WR labels. Obviously there are many variables, but it could still help photographers decide with more certainty if exposure to certain elements is relatively safe or not.
Thanks for the always useful info!
Eli Velvel ·
Mrs. Information: “Canon 24-70 f/2.8 L Mk I. A professional lens released in 2002. It weighs about 2 pounds; far larger than any two micro 4/3 lens combined. It is generally referred to as a tank because it never breaks (it has optical problems, but those occur at the front end, which is, oddly enough, entirely made of metal). The plastic mount never breaks despite holding up 2 pounds of lens.”
Plastic mount? http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6232/6326966049_722d061638_z.jpg Um, no. 35L? Plastic mount? Um no.
Roger Cicala ·
Eli, you should read the article before commenting. That’s a nice picture of the metal bayonet of the 24-70. The mount is just under that and is entirely plastic.
I understand that the terminology is inconsistent. Many people call the bayonet the mount, but it’s not the entire mount. The metal bayonet has 4 screws that connect it to the lens through the mount.
But if you’d taken the time to look at the pictures it should be really easy to see we aren’t talking about the load-bearing mount, not the metal bayonet.
Randy ·
Thanks Roger. It seems Professional Quality Construction means about as much as professional photographer. But maybe that’s why there aren’t any “Professional” neurosurgeons.
Roger Cicala ·
Thanks, Randy, that made me laugh. I went to a basketball game today with a neurosurgeon. He thought the professional neurosurgeon concept was incredibly funny – but did say he knew a couple of guys that he really thinks the term ‘amatuer neurosurgeon’ would be appropriate for.
Mark ·
Years back I dropped a new 1DsII onto a concrete sidewalk in Manhattan. I was sick when I saw it falling. The top by the hotshoe cracked, along with minor internal damage. $650 later, Canon returns it to me good as new, along with the cracked top as a keepsake. I was surprised when I saw the supposed weather sealing. It was merely little rubber gaskets that surrounded all the buttons on the underside of the top. So I’m not surprised at all to see the inside of the lenses.
As for plastic vs metal, plastics have come a very long way and are incredibly strong.
Ed ·
I often have to do minor repair on older manual focus lenses. Its pretty common for them to have plastic mounts as well. I’ve never seen one break, but have stripped a screw thread or two.
Mike Earussi ·
Roger, thank you once again for an excellent and insightful article. Your unique access to volumes of repair and test data, via your business, enables you to present data no other tester can possibly match.
I also second the request for a future article on which lenses/bodies are more weather sealed than others, as again, only you have access to enough data to make such an article meaningful.
Thanks
Alexander ·
About weather resistant and weather sealed. You should look at this video: http://youtu.be/OM0wM_ecoMU. Dave Dugdale asked a canon rep about it. Basically he told Dave: The moment you don’t want to be in the rain anymore, so does your camera/lens.
Wilt Wong ·
Roger said, “…you are calling the mount what I refer to as the bayonet. Bayonet’s, with a very few exceptions are always metal.”
Therein lies the source of confusion: The industy has been referring to ‘Canon mount’ vs. ‘Pentax mount’ vs. ‘Exakta mount’ (for ALL of my 45+ years in photography)to distinguish a lens as fitting Canon rather than fitting Nikon, etc.
Wilt Wong ·
Unfortunately ‘bayonet’ is NOT the right term simply because the long existant Asahi Pentax ‘M42 mount’ is not a ‘bayonet’, it is a SCREW in.
Mike Banks ·
Roger, thanks again for some great information. I have to tell you though, as a “professional” photographer, I don’t care if the lens has a metal mount or plastic mount. I’ve never been interested in most of the technical properties of my craft. Does it work? Does it make money for me? If so, I love it…if not I hate it. Pretty simple. Will it break down as compared to the usage an enthusiast uses his/her equipment, sure. I expect it to because it gets beaten up most of the time I out shooting.
However having said all this I would still read everything you write in order to purchase the most durable equipment so I don’t have that many break downs. Please do a weather sealing testing and give us that information.
Tim F ·
That was an excellent review Roger! People need to get out and shoot more instead of wasting their time venting on forums… Nothing is accomplished time wise by doing so. Besides with all the choices in available equipment, It really is a good time to be a photographer!
Tim
Paul ·
I enjoyed your article (like many other articles of you), but I just have to comment on this quote of you:
“I understand that the terminology is inconsistent. Many people call the bayonet the mount, but it’s not the entire mount. The metal bayonet has 4 screws that connect it to the lens through the mount.”
If that qualifies as mount, almost a whole lens qualifies as mount, because lots of parts are screwed or glued together and finally are connected to the bayonet.
I’m Dutch, so my English isn’t that good, but doesn’t mount mean “link”? The link between a lens and a body is the mount, so the bayonet in case of the lenses discussed earlier.
Petr Jehlik ·
Nicely done! Another very informative jet somewhat funny article 🙂
I would like to know, how is standing Fuji with its X-mount lenses.. How about 14/2,8 23/1,4 35/1,4 60/2,4 etc – real metal mounts, or just metal bayonets?
Thank you again and wish you all the best in 2014
Petr Jehlik
Prague
Czech Republic
Russell ·
So does this count as to a manufacture telling you what weather sealing means?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_-RAzBjakk
Roger Cicala ·
Russell, it counts as an impressive video – and I’m a K3 owner personally and I do believe they have the best weather sealing.
But the Pentax warranty on that camera says: This warranty does not cover any damage caused to the product, including, but not limited to: impact, moisture, liquid, . . . . So what it tells me is we’ll risk a few hundred bucks worth of camera and lens for some marketing, but we aren’t promising anyone anything and we sure aren’t risking having to repair a bunch of water damaged items.
If Pentax was so certain wouldn’t they put their warranty where their mouth is? Once again, the manufacturer suggests something hoping the prospective buyer makes lots of assumptions, and the buyers do. Doesn’t cost them a dime.
My whole point, not just here but throughout what I write, is let’s stop buying into all the BS they shovel at us. Because as long as we keep buying into it, they’ll keep on shoveling. They put a camera under water and didn’t make you one single promise. But you made assumptions.
Roger
Reggie ·
The plastic bit’s not surprising. People have lots of (mostly false) beliefs about the durability of plastics. That said, the weather sealing part is quite disappointing. I would love to see a breakdown of the truly weather-sealed cameras.
Olympus users were always the most bold with their weather sealed equipment, but my old E-3/35-100 combo took on water when I was using it out on a lake once, from being splashed. I had thought maybe the seals on one or both might have just been worn out, but since Olympus service was going to charge a pretty penny just to tell me if there was really anything wrong with the sealing, and I was already migrating to Nikon, I didn’t bother. I am hoping to hit the snow with my D3s and a nice telephoto (probably one of yours) in Yellowstone soon, a guide on what combos have the best sealing would be great to see.
Stan Burns ·
I checked both my Canon and Nikon part lists. Canon calls what you refer to as a ‘bayonet’ as a ‘mount, lens’. Nikon refers to it as a ‘bayonet’.
How’s that for confusion? Even the manufacturers can’t agree!
Scott Kirkpatrick ·
My gripe with Olympus is that here in Israel they have only a distributor who ships P&S products to stores and has no clue about their more high-end stuff. So anything I use is purchased in the US and carried home. Nonetheless, I dropped a newish E-P5, shattering its LCD, brought it in to their main offices, improvised some paperwork, and sent it off to Portugal. It came back repaired (not replaced) at no cost, no shipping charges, in about a month, during a major holiday period.
scott
JOHN CONRAD ·
Olympus repair in the US is done in El Paso, TX at a place called Precision Camera. At least, in 2013. I sent 2 lenses and an EM5 in last year and service was prompt. The invoices listed replacement parts, so I don’t think they were refurbs sent back. The odd thing is they always send the item back to the east coast before sending it back, according to the tracking info.
Roger Cicala ·
Hi John,
I wonder what country El Paso is really close to? I wonder how that small building I see at that address contains the capability to repair so many, many items that Precision repairs? I wonder why everything goes back to the East Coast to be remailed? I wonder about a lot of things.
But you are correct: when Olympus closed their factory service they outsourced everything to Precision in, or near, El Paso. And don’t get me wrong: my hat’s off to Precision’s business model. They are one of the few rapidly growing, profitable repair companies.
Roger
Anger management consultant :-) ·
So will all these people who want metal “mounts” swear to never get on a Boeing 787? Look at how little metal is in it:
http://www.newairplane.com/787/design_highlights/#/visionary-design/composites/advanced-composite-use
Years ago, after a particularly frustrating conversation with DMV, I slammed my plastic telephone handset against the edge of a wooden desk. Typical Bell System “2500 set” against particle board with a formica veneer. I was fully trying to break the phone. I ended up putting a big dimple into the edge of my desk. The phone didn’t even show a scratch.
John Clow ·
Roger,
I think it would be wise if you consider either putting these pictures in your post or linking to them. This way there would be no confusion as to what you are talking about when you mention mount issues.
Olympus Broken mount pics
http://www.mu-43.com/showthread.php?t=56256&page=24
P.S. you are right 🙂
Robert ·
Thanks for the writeup, Roger.
Do you carry any lenses with plastic bayonets?
I buy and sell used lenses all the time, and I’ve seen LOTS of broken plastic bayonets, mostly on “kit” lenses.
I would be curious to see what your statistics are on those items, if you have enough to be significant.
Roger Cicala ·
Robert, we really don’t carry many – almost by definition they’re too inexpensive to make rental useful.
Jeff Allen ·
The issue should not really be about mounting points these should be designed to take the weight and any leverage in mounting the lens onto the camera into question they are a structural component. The actual “mount” that attaches the lens to the camera if its subject to constant wear in this case a sliding compression wear should not adversely affect the focal depth. The wear can also affect the lock off point over time.
Metal has long deemed to be better than plastic because its a traditional material with low wear in this application. Earlier plastics (nylon) could surface “tear” but thats not generally the case any longer as materials have improved dramatically since the 70s.
In professional motion picture lenses metal is still used but mainly because these lenses tend to be heavier (and more expensive) and subject to more abuse. Weather sealing any lens completely is nigh impossible, but again professional lenses do a better job. What would be interesting is how metal Vs plastic lenses cope in very low and very high tempretures and how this affects focus.
Petr Jehlik ,Prague, CZ ·
I will try it with my question once again and keep my fingers crossed.
The question was – how about Fujinons for X-mount? ( And now I mean better built primes like 14/2,8 23/1,4 35/1,4 60/2,4M ..you name it ) Are there internal metal mounts or plastic ones ? If I remember correctly, in some older post you call their (Fuji’s) mechanics “strange” but with no more explanation at all.
And one more – how about Zeiss “Touit” lens family? ( As I understand from manufacturer’s commentary during launch – internal mechanic is made mostly (if not exclusively) from hi-grade plastics.)
Thank you for reply.
Roger Cicala ·
Petr,
I haven’t opened a lot of Fuji’s lately, but as best I recall most of them have internal metal mounts. The Touit’s are plastic.
Gary ·
Gentlemen, I want to thank you for this write up on plastic lens mounts. I have a newly purchased Sony SLT-A58 and everyone speaks about the plastic lens mount on the camera, and of course, the kit lenses that come with it. But, so far, I haven’t seen any issues, nor do I expect to. Today’s polymers are well thought out, and yes, they can break, but it’s not too often. Only time will tell on my Sony, but thanks to your article, I feel justified in my purchase, or at least, easier of mind. Besides, the camera and the kit lens are lighter than my old KM 7D body alone. 🙂
Tim Ashton ·
Water resistant??
_5028005 copy
I had to test it. You know, waving a red flag at a bull and all that – 10 minutes under a hot shower while powered on, sitting in about 1cm of standing water. All whilst intermittently shooting a frame or two, and no ill effects whatsoever afterwards. Impressive, to say the least.
Go to http://blog.mingthein.com/2013/09/10/olympus-om-d-e-m1-review-1/
Maybe this is the gold standard
Keep the articles coming please
Josh ·
I would love to see a test where several different “pro grade” “weather sealed” lenses and bodies were left under a sprinkler or something for like 15 minuets or so and then immediately taken apart to see how much water actually got inside. I have a feeling many people would be in for a shock. Unfortunately such test is probably too expensive but it would be very interesting.
Ian Bullock ·
Great article – but I would also be curious about your attitude towards plastic vs. metal bayonet, in your terminology. I’ve long wondered whether I should care about that or not. For example, many of the Samsung NX lenses are pretty solid optically but often have a plastic bayonet part. Is such a lens more likely to fail/have problems in general?
In general, it makes sense that plastic could almost be better for some parts – it has some extra springiness to it that could absorb impacts more gracefully. And as you mentioned, if it fails, it’s more likely to act as a sort of “mechanical fuse” by breaking without exerting too much force on the surrounding parts.
Roger Cicala ·
Ian, I really don’t with small lenses. In theory I could see where plastic might wear away over time with lens changes, leaving a loose mount, but in reality I haven’t seen it.
Christian ·
I guess, that there is some sort of term-misunderstanding out there…
Maybe this is not true for native English speaking guys but a bunch of people out there – although writing their blogs/webpages/whatever in Englich – whose native language is another one. Same is true for me.
I have been into photo business for around 10 years now, work as a pro and do quite some reading about photography stuff. But – and I guess this is true for quite a lot of people like me – this article sort of opened my eyes… till now I took “bayonet” and “mount” as more or less identical terms when talking about a lens. I guess this would explain why many professional reviewers keep talking about “plastic mounts” when they actually mean “plastic bayonet”
Frank ·
Regarding the internal mount (the plastic load-bearing part with screw holes that the metal bayonet attaches to), and L glass Canon zooms – I actually think this might be done on purpose.
When you drop a 1D class body with 16-35/2.8 attached (and trust me, for a working PJ such sh*t happens, especially in covering public unrest or similar high danger events) on concrete, usually the lens just separates nicely at that part, tearing away at the plastic rear tube, leaving you with a dented camera (but usually servicable) and lens with glass intact.
Happened to me as well (well, I won’t go into details but I did manage to grab the broken lens before making a hasty getaway). The whole replacement was pretty simple – one flex wire, one plastic tube. I have seen several of these lenses fail in such “controlled” matter.
I think it’s much more preferable to a ripped off camera mount and bented metal tube “permanent nonadjustable tilt/shit” lens…
After all, if the lens rips apart at the plastic part, hopefuly most of the impact energy will be absorbed by shearing of the plastic part, just like a car’s deformation zone.
That said, it obviously depends a lot on the design of the particular parts.
Peter ·
You haven’t seen one lens manufacturer say what the lens is sealed against? What about the Nikon AW1 lenses? Nikon says they are sealed against water. Down to 49 feet. That seems pretty precise.
Roger Cicala ·
Peter, a very good point. I was thinking of the larger SLRs, but the AW1 certainly counts and is a game changer in that regard.
Marshall Goldberg ·
I have been wondering about this. Pentax markets their DSLR’s as weather resistant. Does that mean they can withstand more abuse than a Canon 7D or 5Diii, or a comparable Nikon? Are construction techniques and materials used in the Pentax better than in the Canons and Nikons, or is Pentax merely marketing a feature which their competitors also have?
I think there’s no way for a consumer to know without buying and deliberately damaging a few very expensive cameras.
Roger Cicala ·
Marshall, I think your last sentence is a most excellent summary.
Roger
Ramakant ·
Dear Roger,
Very nice write up about the practical aspects. I would love to know from you about one more bickering that I am told – that the plastic mount wears out faster if lens-swap is too frequent, resulting in a wobbly fit thus a) reducing the sharpness of photo-snaps and b) deteriorating the weather protection at the mount. Kindly elaborate your views!
Mel Snyder ·
Roger, I think the problem is, many people don’t understand precisely what a “mount” is. They see a metal surface on the bayonet mechanism, and they assume that’s the whole mount. I can see from your disassembly that the “mount” is actually what the screws holding that bayonet plate attach to…and in many cases, even when the lens shell is metal, what’s underneath is plastic.
“Plastic” is widely prefaced with the word “cheap” – and the implication is, “easily broken”…”unprofessional.” The Sony forum has many devotees who will be crushed to learn that under their metal-shell “Sony-Zeiss” lenses might be the same plastic as under a Sony kit zoom. They similarly believe the magnesium shell on an A7r somehow confers extra, professional impact resistance vs. the plastic shell on the A7. I would guess that the difference would be irrelevant if either camera was dropped 5 feet to concrete.
Remember the furor when Canon introduced the plastic T90? Save for the bothersome EEE error, the camera works as well or better than the all-metal cameras of the error.
I think we all need to get very real about what cameras are today vs. yesteryear, They are electronics boxes like our iPhones and iPads, and will be rendered obsolescent WAY before any plastic becomes an issue. My 1959 Nikon F would probably survive being used a lethal weapon. 55 years later, it is a wonderful working machine, as is my 1982 Leica M4P.
But 30-50 years from now, no one will care that a Sony A7 or a Nikon D7100 or a Canon 5DMarkIII was built mostly of plastic…any more than they care about the construction of the 286 computer in a Goodwill dumpster.
Mel
Vladislav B ·
Roger, excellent article, thank you. Unfortunately it does not tell the readers anything about the most important aspect Ramakant asked on April 5, 2014. Surely you have some insight into that – why no response? If indeed the plastic mount wears out faster if lens-swap is frequent, resulting in a less precise fit and deterioration of optics alignment, this would be something to worry about – not snapping the mount! I simply can not answer this question, but I think it is more important one, you should really expand on that.
Roger Cicala ·
Vladislav, there’s some semantica that makes ‘mount’ confusing. As a repair person, I consider the ‘mount’ to be the place where the bayonet is attached to the main body of the lens – the part that supports the lens internally. Most photographers consider ‘mount’ to mean bayonet (the party you put into the camera and rotate 45 degrees). I can’t comment on a plastic bayonet because we didn’t look at that. We looked at the internal mount that attaches the bayonet to the rest of th lens.
Barry King ·
I had been considering buying a ‘weather sealed’ lens for my Fuji X-T1, however I changed my mind and bought a quality rain cover instead, somewhat cheaper I might add!
Charles Morris ·
I understand that mount is an internal construct, essentially the foundation of the lens structure. It has already been noted here that most consumers and a large number of pros (or self-proclaimed pros) will still argue that the bayonet is the mount. I used to work on cameras and lenses and do minor repairs, or more often it was more major cleanup than repair. The plastic bayonets on lenses worry me a bit and i have seen many of them damaged. In the last 20 or so years since i quit that business, the handful of “kit” lenses that had plastic bayonets has grown and I have finally learned to embrace these for what they are worth. that bayonet being made of plastic is a great compliment and even a safety feature for most of the all plastic camera bodies now. I can get a replacement bayonet for my 18-55 or 55-200 lens for less than $20 and it takes me about half an hour to clean off the table, dig out my tools and replace a mount where one of the lugs on the bayonet have cracked. I have done this for other people a dozen times in the last 8 years. In most of these cases i think the plastic bayonet saved the camera body and a couple times I have removed a bayonet only to find more damage and those i reassembled and returned to the owner with the suggestion to get a replacement or professional repair engaged. As much as people tout metal as being the only strong solution, i like plastic. in many cases it saves weight, in most cases it saves manufacturing cost, and only rarely do i regret the plastic in my lenses. I have a Nikon 18070mm kit lens i used for a very long time. it is quite literally worn out now and it is the plastic in the zoom mechanism is worn around the cams that carry the lens groups. So it is no longer possible to get a sharp image with it because at least one of the lens groups will be in the wrong place. I have retried this lens, I will miss it, but I can’t condemn it. That plastic allowed it to be a good companion at a low weight and a reasonable price for almost 9 years before i started to consistently notice focus issues.
Kelvin Vine ·
An excellent article and some intelligent comments. Thank you.
Peter Kelly ·
I know this is a little late in the day, but I’ve just bought two Sony A7 and immediately became aware of the issue regarding their lens mount.
If I remove the lens and press alternately on each side the mount will rock, on one almost to the degree of the silver disappearing behind the orange!
Investigating further, I also came across your comments regarding the Fotodiox replacement on the DPReview site. In my case, the screws are certainly tight, but the problem is massive! I’d love to hear if you have any newer experience as to my best options.
Roger Cicala ·
Peter, I’d send it back in to Sony. I know some people have had that issue and Sony has either fixed it or replaced their camera.
Peter Kelly ·
Thanks Roger, That is what I’ll be doing.
A right royal PITA and I wonder if it is this issue, rather than anything to do with the plastic, that has affected numbers of owners.
Perhaps the Fotodiox mount is addressing a fairly minor possibility while all the time there is a bigger QC issue lurking…
Eric ·
I love you guys ! 🙂
Give us truth about lenses and body construction and reliability.
Chris Nikander ·
I just stupidly dropped my Nikon D200 + Nikkor 18-105 on the floor.Well the plastic bayonet broke. I was not happy off course, but it was better that the lens was damaged than the camera. A metal bayonet shurely would have been stronger, but maybe the camera would have been damaged.
What about accepting plastic mounts, but have them easily interchangable?
Vlad Bieg ·
Not a single comment since 2013?! We can’t have that! So, here it goes…
…very interesting article, but it concentrates on durability and repair aspects ONLY. Taking apart lenses gives one unique experience and perspective, HOWEVER for vast majority of users all that is of marginal (if any at all) relevance. In contrast, VERY relevant question would be: is plastic mount machined with the same precision as metal mount? Within roughly the same manufacturing cost, is the same precision, assembly tolerances and alignment of optical components achievable with both (plastic and metal)? No insight in the article.
Anecdotal evidence (so the number is just my guess): I believe that one in 10,000 users may be affected by a lens mount breaking or distorting due to impact or excessive force, at the same time all 10,000 users are continuously affected by how well a lens is manufactured, assembled, and what precision was achieved due to material selection. And please note: I am not saying “plastic bad, metal good”. Do your own research — I also never argue with people who claim absolute knowledge ;?)
Andy ·
I’m not a photographer, but a photographic retailer. I have to get my customers’ plastic mounts replaced every now and then, after a drop, and our main culprit seems to be Nikon 18-105mm lenses. The customers freak out when their lenses break away, but I love it, because it means an inexpensive repair, and that they haven’t bent the mount on their camera body.
Andy ·
I'm not a photographer, but a photographic retailer. I have to get my customers' plastic mounts replaced every now and then, after a drop, and our main culprit seems to be Nikon 18-105mm lenses. The customers freak out when their lenses break away, but I love it, because it means an inexpensive repair, and that they haven't bent the mount on their camera body.
Mueller ·
Can I replace the mount on my Canon 80-200mm f/2.8L lens so that it’s weather sealed?
Roger Cicala ·
No. You can wrap some big rubber bands around the outside where it mounts and that will help some.
Mueller ·
dude! I ordered some a couple of days ago. Great minds think alike… )
Mueller ·
dude! I ordered some a couple of days ago. Great minds think alike... )
Mueller ·
Can I replace the mount on my Canon 80-200mm f/2.8L lens so that it's weather sealed?