Front Element Lens Protection Revisited
The internet is an interesting resource. Once you’ve put a reference up, it’s there forever. Over time, things may change, but that 10-year-old article doesn’t. A few weeks ago someone used some old articles I’d written (1, 2, 3) as a reason why he doesn’t use protective UV filters. They claimed I had said there was no need to use UV filters.
That’s kind of what I said, but so compressed as to be inaccurate. What I really said was this:
- Evaluate the cost to benefit ratio of using a UV filter. Don’t use a $100 filter to protect a $100 front element.
- Evaluate the situation. If you are in a high-risk environment, use a filter to maximize your protection.
- Never, ever use a cheap $30 filter unless you don’t care about image quality.
But at that time (2010 to 2013) I wrote those posts, that meant I didn’t use UV filters very often because it usually wasn’t worth the money. Front element replacements weren’t that expensive, and high-quality UV filters were expensive.
A Bit About My Qualifications
As with every article I write, there will be three or four comments saying, “I’ve had 20 different lenses and never had this problem.” Good for you. I take care of around 20,000 lenses at any given time. About 15,000 of those never had a problem either. You do the math. So I write about the problems that occur so you can be forewarned about the problems that may occur with your lenses. Forewarned is forearmed.
We replace front elements in lenses for cosmetic reasons every day. Every. Damn. Day. Sure, they’re rental lenses and maybe don’t get babied as much as your lenses do. You may get lucky and never deal with any of this. But it’s always good to make an informed decision about what precautions you want to take. In this particular case, basing your decisions on 6 or 8 year old data can be a mistake.

There Has Been a Big Change
When I wrote most of those articles I talked about above, front elements cost from $70 to $200, and good filters cost $70- to $140. Today highest quality UV filters cost from $70 to $120, even in 82mm size. But the cost of replacing front elements has skyrocketed.
I’ve always said to evaluate the cost-benefit ratio of whether you want to use a protective filter. Now the price has changed so that change should be factored into the equation. (BTW – the costs I’m giving as examples below are our costs. Your prices may be different. But we’re a really large repair customer based in the U. S. so by ‘different’ I mean ‘yours will probably be a bit more expensive.’)
Most people aren’t surprised that a Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS lens ($1,800 or so) has a $270 front element, or that the Canon 24-70 f/2.8 Mk II ($1,700) runs just over $200 for a new front element. You might not even be surprised that a 150-600mm telephoto lens that costs $900 or so runs over $200 to $250 to get the front element replaced (either brand) since that is a big piece of glass.
But you might get a little queasy when you find out a Nikon 24-120mm lens that costs from $900 to $1100 new (they go on sale a lot) costs $320 to replace the front element. If you own a Zeiss Otus lens, you probably have reasonable funds in your bank account, but you may still have sticker shock if you need a front element replaced; it will cost $900 to $1,500. Some Sony FE lenses require replacement of the entire optical group ($800 to $1,500) to replace a front element scratch because the front element isn’t available as a part; the entire optical assembly is the only part. (Sony is working on separating the front element part to reduce this cost. They’ve already done so on the FE 24-70mm f/4; now a front element replacement is only $270. They say they are doing so with most of their other lenses, too, but right now an FE 16-35 f/4 front glass replacement is $785, for example. We have bins full of Sony lenses that just aren’t worth the cost of front element replacements, hoping that some day the price will become reasonable.)
More important, perhaps, is that the cost of a front element replacement can be very high even for a not-so-expensive lens. A decade ago you could assume a relatively inexpensive lens (under $1,000) had a relatively inexpensive front element. A Canon 70-200 f/4 IS lens, for example, cost around $950 and a front element replacement was under $100. Most newly released under-$1,000 lenses will run $200-$300 for a front element replacement.
My point here is not to provide a list of what every manufacturer charges for every front element. You can call or email them if you want to know. It’s not that one manufacturer has really high prices and another doesn’t. They all have some high and low-cost lenses. For example, manufacturer X has front element replacement costs that range from 9% of the lens price to 33%. If there’s a general rule it’s that lenses released 5 or more years ago are reasonable cost for front element replacement, newly released lenses are expensive. There are exceptions, of course. And so I’m clear, it’s not that the cost goes down over time. Unlike sale prices, repair prices don’t go down after the lens has been out a while.
So, front element replacement costs, particularly on new lenses, are higher than they used to be and some lenses are breathtakingly higher. There are some real reasons this is so. These new, sharper lenses often have front elements that are unique glass types, nano-coated, highly aspherical and a lot of other things. Manufacturers are pulling ever trick out of their bag to make lenses sharper and better. One of those tricks is that front elements, which often used to be simple, protective elements, got fancy. ‘Fancy’ is the optical word for damned expensive.
Some of the increased expense is just poor planning. Let’s pretend, for example; the manufacturer thought, “Well, this front group is so difficult to adjust optically that the service center can’t do it. So instead of making the front element a part, let’s just make the entire front group of lens elements a part so that we can adjust it in the factory, and the service center can just replace the whole group.” I have talked to manufacturer’s lens designers who had absolutely no idea the front element was more likely to need replacing than other parts (we replace more front elements than all other parts combined). That’s not what they do; they design lenses.
Does This Really Matter?
Small front element scratches, the kind that filters will protect against, rarely affect image quality at all. Once in a while, shooting into bright lights, you may (or may not) get some flare from the scratch. So if your lens gets some little front element scratches, as most eventually do, it matters very little.
But if you plan on selling your lens at some point, it does affect resale value significantly. We make this decision every day: The lens has a small scratch on the front group, is it worth the price of replacing it? A few years ago we’d spend $100 on a new front element and get $150 more in asking price for the used lens. These days the math is different. It’s not worth spending $250 on a new front group to get a $150 higher selling price.
Of course, there’s a positive for people who buy used lenses. A small front element scratch means a bargain lens for sale that will function just fine.
So does this mean you should put a UV filter on all of your lenses? No. I still recommend looking at the cost-to-benefit ratio for the specific lens, and considering what you’re going do with it. If it’s a lens for studio portraiture only, why bother? If you shooting surf at the beach, then you better wear protection.
In most cases, a lens hood (actually mounted on the lens, not left in your bag) provides plenty of front element protection. Wide-angle lenses are a unique case, though, since those hoods don’t provide much protection. But if you are outdoors and your lens is exposed to dust, sand, water, or other things lenses don’t like, then a hood doesn’t provide protection and UV filter is probably worthwhile.
How Much Does A Filter Impact Image
Well, if you buy a $30 filter, then it can impact the image a lot. Waviness in the thickness of glass, poor coatings, poor quality glass, even shiny metal in the mounting ring can cause problems. If you choose to buy a cheap filter, you’ll probably see effects if you look critically; although it won’t be in every shot. You may see some effect on absolute sharpness, but you’re far more likely to see effects from light flare, ugly bokeh, ghosting, and reflections.
A high-quality filter is made from good optical glass, flat to within 1/4 wavelength, and multicoated on BOTH SIDES. It’s expensive, but it doesn’t have much effect on image quality at all. (When you do your filter shopping, make sure the filter is coated on both sides; some cheap filter makers multicoat one side only, then advertise it as multicoated). A good filter should avoid most (not all, but almost all) effects regarding ghosting, flare, and reflection. It shouldn’t affect sharpness even at the highest level of measurement.
Here’s an example of a Canon 50mm f/1.2 lens tested on our optical bench to demonstrate there’s no sharpness penalty with an excellent filter. First the lens with no filter at all.

And then tested with a high-quality UV filter in place.

There are no effects on MTF from the filter, either on or off axis. This doesn’t mean there might not be a bit of ghosting if you’re shooting street lights at night or star trails, etc. But it won’t be often, and you can always remove the filter if you notice that happening in a particular shot.
So Do I Recommend Filters Now?
Not necessarily, no. I support common sense and looking at the cost-to-benefit ratio. But if you have one of the newer lenses, especially if you know the front element has Nano-coating, is aspherical, or is just expensive to replace, then I’d certainly at least have a filter available. I’d especially recommend it if you expect you might sell that lens someday; even a minor scratch is probably a 10% price reduction on the retail market. If you say they’ll pry that lens out of your cold, dead fingers, then I wouldn’t worry so much.
I also really recommend you look carefully at the filter threads and front element BEFORE you mount a filter on the lens, especially if it’s an ‘ultra-thin’ filter. Several lenses we know of have slightly projecting front elements, and some ultra-thin filters can actually touch the center of the front element causing a scratch if the filter is tightened all the way down.
While I’m on the subject of touching the front element, though, those nice new thick lens caps a lot of manufacturers use these days, the ones with the big spring-loaded squeeze release handles, are a problem for some lenses, especially when they are 82mm wide. There’s a lot of plastic underneath that cap, right over the center of the lens. If the lens cap gets pushed down in the middle, it can scrape the front element. I know: glass is harder than plastic. But coatings aren’t. And a coating scratch is just as visible as a glass scratch.
Roger Cicala
Lensrentals.com
December, 2016
143 Comments
jmasterj ·
Thanks for the update! What do you do with those bins of front elements? I’d be interested in taking a front element or two off your hands just to play with.
Roger Cicala ·
At first we thought it was kind of cool to look at them. Now that there’s about 700 pounds of them we keep saying we need to throw them away, but then we decide maybe tomorrow.
Clayton Taylor ·
I smell a giveaway contest!
Hmmm….” if you win a used front element from LR, what cool thing(s) will you do with it? Pick your favorite lens and let us know…”
OK now, who gets to pay the postage?
Carleton Foxx ·
Ebay!!!
Joshua White ·
Great article!
I am an artist and photography professor, and experiment with lenses and having students build things with optics. Would happily pay shipping for a big box of them!!
Steve Millqvist ·
They make pretty good loupes.
James Michael ·
You should check with a local college, and see if they offer glass blowing classes. They might be able to make you some pretty cool lens art.
jmasterj ·
Thanks for the update! What do you do with those bins of front elements? I'd be interested in taking a front element or two off your hands just to play with.
Roger Cicala ·
At first we thought it was kind of cool to look at them. Now that there's about 700 pounds of them we keep saying we need to throw them away, but then we decide maybe tomorrow.
Clayton Taylor ·
I smell a giveaway contest!
Hmmm...." if you win a used front element from LR, what cool thing(s) will you do with it? Pick your favorite lens and let us know..."
OK now, who gets to pay the postage?
Joshua White ·
Great article!
I am an artist and photography professor, and experiment with lenses and having students build things with optics. Would happily pay shipping for a big box of them!!
David Alexander ·
Great post, particularly the MTF comparison. In my shooting, I leave BH Nano filters on everything and skip the lens caps entirely. One less thing to fiddle with and slow me down. These filters are effortless to clean and, in impromptu tests with strong point light sources, don’t seem to flare any more than the base lenses. It’s also a hell of a lot faster to replace a filter than a front element.
David Alexander ·
Great post, particularly the MTF comparison. In my shooting, I leave BH Nano filters on everything and skip the lens caps entirely. One less thing to fiddle with and slow me down. These filters are effortless to clean and, in impromptu tests with strong point light sources, don't seem to flare any more than the base lenses. It's also a hell of a lot faster to replace a filter than a front element.
E.J. Peiker ·
I think I want one of those 70-400 f/4 IS lenses 😉 😀
E.J. Peiker ·
I think I want one of those 70-400 f/4 IS lenses ;) :D
Dan Charleton ·
You’re making me rethink my stance on this topic. Specifically I just picked up a Zeiss FE 55mm and I wonder if the front element replacement costs are an issue as you mentioned. I do shoot outdoors on nature walks, but nothing extreme. Would you recommend some protection in my case and if so, what filter would fit the bill?
Roger Cicala ·
Dan, I’d at least have a filter on-hand. There are lots of reputable brands: B+W, top end Hoya’s and Heliopans, etc. The 55 may fit that “pry from my cold, dead hands” definition for you, though, so it may not be a big issue. That’s a nice lens.
Dan Charleton ·
You're making me rethink my stance on this topic. Specifically I just picked up a Zeiss FE 55mm and I wonder if the front element replacement costs are an issue as you mentioned. I do shoot outdoors on nature walks, but nothing extreme. Would you recommend some protection in my case and if so, what filter would fit the bill?
Roger Cicala ·
Dan, I'd at least have a filter on-hand. There are lots of reputable brands: B+W, top end Hoya's and Heliopans, etc. The 55 may fit that "pry from my cold, dead hands" definition for you, though, so it may not be a big issue. That's a nice lens.
Patrick Chase ·
Do you have any sense for how/whether quality filters noticeably impact MTF on wider-angle lenses?
As you demonstrated in your stack height comparisons, the MTF impact of flat glass increases with angle of incidence. That’s why lenses with short exit pupil to sensor distances are most sensitive to stack height.
The 50 mm lens that you tested has a maximum incident angle of ~23 deg. Do you think that the result would have been different on, say, a 16-35 at the wide end (~54 deg)? Beyond that the point is moot, since you typically can’t use filters on wider lenses anyway.
Roger Cicala ·
Patrick, I”m comfortable only to about 18mm off axis (about the sides of an SLR). Further out in the actual corners, theres enough MTF noise for me to think I’d not detect anything subtle.
With that limitation in mind I”m comfortable that 20mm isn’t a problem, but I wouldn’t make any claims at 16mm, even with the best filters. It would take a large run of MTFs to be certain about that and I just don’t have the time.
Brandon Dube ·
If the object is at infinity, no difference.
If the object is 3 feet away, there could be a sizable difference.
Roger Cicala ·
Very good point. I was fixated on optical bench testing and infinity, as I so often am.
Patrick Chase ·
That’s true if the filter is perfectly flat and uniform. If it isn’t then wider FOV will magnify the impact IIRC.
Patrick Chase ·
Do you have any sense for how/whether quality filters noticeably impact MTF on wider-angle lenses?
As you demonstrated in your stack height comparisons, the MTF impact of flat glass increases with angle of incidence. That's why lenses with short exit pupil to sensor distances are most sensitive to stack height.
The 50 mm lens that you tested has a maximum incident angle of ~23 deg. Do you think that the result would have been different on, say, a 16-35 at the wide end (~54 deg)? Beyond that the point is moot, since you typically can't use filters on wider lenses anyway.
Roger Cicala ·
Patrick, I"m comfortable only to about 18mm off axis (about the sides of an SLR). Further out in the actual corners, theres enough MTF noise for me to think I'd not detect anything subtle.
With that limitation in mind I"m comfortable that 20mm isn't a problem, but I wouldn't make any claims at 16mm, even with the best filters. It would take a large run of MTFs to be certain about that and I just don't have the time.
Brandon Dube ·
If the object is at infinity, no difference.
If the object is 3 feet away, there could be a sizable difference.
Patrick Chase ·
That's true if the filter is perfectly flat and uniform. If it isn't then wider FOV will magnify the impact IIRC.
Brandon Dube ·
A filter in front of the lens will never impact image quality for an object at infinity, as there is only a shift when going through a window for an object at infinity.
For an object at a finite distance, the filter will impact image quality by adding aberrations.
Michael Clark ·
But even if the object you are shooting is at infinity, if there is a bright off-axis light shining on the front of the lens a filter can affect the image by introducing flare, particularly the veiling variety.
Brandon Dube ·
Sure, there can be stray light to consider.
Tord55 ·
How come shots of the moon will be ruined by them then?! The filter creates reflections from the reflections created by the stack of glass on top of the sensor.
Brandon Dube ·
A filter in front of the lens will never impact image quality for an object at infinity, as there is only a shift when going through a window for an object at infinity.
For an object at a finite distance, the filter will impact image quality by adding aberrations.
Mickaël Dardaillon ·
Talking of lens cap touching the front element, I add one lens fall on the cap once. It did touch the glass underneath it, and even broke it. I was happy it was a filter on 2 weeks old lens, and went back to shooting the next day after ordering a new filter!
John Dillworth ·
Rodger, I’d suggest a compromise. If a lens comes with a hood, use it. A hood will prevent about 99% of the incidental BS that scratches a lens. Any chance of doing some test of image quality with and without a hood? I know you nice folks do lab tests but how about including a strong light at an angle that would reduce contrast? Of all the dust, scratch, sample variation, ect , ect I bet the use a lens hood would effect image quality much more in real life shoot situations.
etudiant ·
I’d strongly second that preference for a hood in most cases. They protect better with less image impact.
Filters add condensation surfaces, so shooting in damp conditions becomes an adventure. You don’t know if it is outside fog or fogging on the inside of the filter until you remove the wretched thing.
Roger Cicala ·
I’m totally a hood guy on my personal lenses. But in blowing sand or stuff, I’m selectively adding filters at times these days.
Carleton Foxx ·
Photography is a game of aggregating a lot of insignificant improvements to the point that, together, they add up to significance. Even when a lens hood doesn’t look like it’s doing anything it is still helping.
John Dillworth ·
Rodger, I'd suggest a compromise. If a lens comes with a hood, use it. A hood will prevent about 99% of the incidental BS that scratches a lens. Any chance of doing some test of image quality with and without a hood? I know you nice folks do lab tests but how about including a strong light at an angle that would reduce contrast? Of all the dust, scratch, sample variation, ect , ect I bet the use a lens hood would effect image quality much more in real life shoot situations.
etudiant ·
I'd strongly second that preference for a hood in most cases. They protect better with less image impact.
Filters add condensation surfaces, so shooting in damp conditions becomes an adventure. You don't know if it is outside fog or fogging on the inside of the filter until you remove the wretched thing.
Roger Cicala ·
I'm totally a hood guy on my personal lenses. But in blowing sand or stuff, I'm selectively adding filters at times these days.
Carleton Foxx ·
Photography is a game of aggregating a lot of insignificant improvements to the point that, together, they add up to significance. Even when a lens hood doesn't look like it's doing anything it is still helping.
JarnoP ·
I use Hoya’s flagship filters or B&W in every lens (except in macro). I shoot mostly while traveling and I carry camera a lot without plastic lens cover on, just with hood and UV-filter. For me it is not only about strict cost benefit analysis, but about feeling “safe” and can relax without needing to worry about minor scratches.
I think lens hoods are the best protection for bigger hits for all but wide-angle lenses.
JarnoP ·
I use Hoya's flagship filters or B&W in every lens (except in macro). I shoot mostly while traveling and I carry camera a lot without plastic lens cover on, just with hood and UV-filter. For me it is not only about strict cost benefit analysis, but about feeling "safe" and can relax without needing to worry about minor scratches.
I think lens hoods are the best protection for bigger hits for all but wide-angle lenses.
Chris Jankowski ·
Roger,
I was wondering, if for the rented lenses that have really high cost of replacement of the front element (or group) e.g. Zeiss Otus, Sony, etc. wouldn’t it make sense for Lens Rentals to rent them with UV filter in the kit and encourage uses to keep it on?
Roger Cicala ·
Chris, we’re discussing it now. I suspect we’ll do a trial run on a few selected lenses that fit that category. Our cost-to-benefit becomes a little higher because of inventory tracking, etc., but the change in front element costs has us looking into it.
Chris Jankowski ·
Roger,
I was wondering, if for the rented lenses that have really high cost of replacement of the front element (or group) e.g. Zeiss Otus, Sony, etc. wouldn't it make sense for Lens Rentals to rent them with UV filter in the kit and encourage uses to keep it on?
Roger Cicala ·
Chris, we're discussing it now. I suspect we'll do a trial run on a few selected lenses that fit that category. Our cost-to-benefit becomes a little higher because of inventory tracking, etc., but the change in front element costs has us looking into it.
Badboy35 ·
Excellent article Roger. I frequently sell lenses so I view keeping the outer element pristine very important so use filters on the majority of my lenses.
Mount Spokane Photography ·
Although the discussion pertains to protecting front lens elements from scratches, I still expect that the article will be quoted for the next 10 years as proof that filters protect a lens. I’m doubting that a filter will be likely to save a lens from serious damage if its dropped from waist high onto a hard surface, It will just add the cost of a new filter to the cost of repairing the lens. That does not mean that a filter is a bad idea, just that people will always read into a article what they want it to say.
Roger Cicala ·
A very good point, and one I probably should have addressed more clearly. Filters help prevent scratches. Drop a lens and all bets are off. Maybe it will survive. Maybe it won’t. And a filter isn’t going to make a real difference, despite some anecdotal claims.
Thank you!
Omesh Singh ·
A (shock-absorbing) plastic lens hood is more likely to save a lens from serious damage from a small fall.
My Tamron 24-70 while attached to my 6D was pulled off a coffee table by the camera strap and survived unscathed thanks to the attached lens hood.
My 24L II fell from a counter top. I stuck my foot out to cushion the fall and ended up kicking it across the isle. The plastic lens hood broke but the lens itself is perfectly fine and has served me well for the past few years with no focusing or decentering issues.
Anyway, now I only use BlackRapid straps, my camera bag stays on the ground, I always use a lens hood and always store my lenses with the lens hood reversed.
Viva la plastiq!
Ian Goss ·
“Isle?” The United Kingdom? 😉
Omesh Singh ·
LOL, I meant to write “aisle”
Kbrasier ·
this is an example of someone getting lucky with having a filter on. It doesn’t mean much more than a single instance.
http://petapixel.com/2016/10/31/drastic-diy-get-broken-filter-off-lens-mythbuster-style/
Impulse_Vigil ·
Recognizing what kind of protection you need for any given situation is often forgotten in these discussions… Beach spray vs general clumsiness vs sticking a macro/ultra-wide in something vs a tree branch spank are all avoided best by different deterrents. Straps, bags, and carry gear all play a role there too…
Mount Spokane Photography ·
Although the discussion pertains to protecting front lens elements from scratches, I still expect that the article will be quoted for the next 10 years as proof that filters protect a lens. I'm doubting that a filter will be likely to save a lens from serious damage if its dropped from waist high onto a hard surface, It will just add the cost of a new filter to the cost of repairing the lens. That does not mean that a filter is a bad idea, just that people will always read into a article what they want it to say.
Roger Cicala ·
A very good point, and one I probably should have addressed more clearly. Filters help prevent scratches. Drop a lens and all bets are off. Maybe it will survive. Maybe it won't. And a filter isn't going to make a real difference, despite some anecdotal claims.
Thank you!
Omesh Singh ·
A (shock-absorbing) plastic lens hood is more likely to save a lens from serious damage from a small fall.
My Tamron 24-70 while attached to my 6D was pulled off a coffee table by the camera strap and survived unscathed thanks to the attached lens hood.
My 24L II fell from a counter top. I stuck my foot out to cushion the fall and ended up kicking it across the isle. The plastic lens hood broke but the lens itself is perfectly fine and has served me well for the past few years with no focusing or decentering issues.
Anyway, now I only use BlackRapid straps, my camera bag stays on the ground, I always use a lens hood and always store my lenses with the lens hood reversed.
Viva la plastiq!
Ian Goss ·
“Isle?” The United Kingdom? ;)
Omesh Singh ·
LOL, I meant to write "aisle"
Kbrasier ·
this is an example of someone getting lucky with having a filter on. It doesn't mean much more than a single instance.
http://petapixel.com/2016/1...
Impulse_Vigil ·
Recognizing what kind of protection you need for any given situation is often forgotten in these discussions... Beach spray vs general clumsiness vs sticking a macro/ultra-wide in something vs a tree branch spank are all avoided best by different deterrents. Straps, bags, and carry gear all play a role there too...
Omesh Singh ·
Good info on the center-pinch type lens caps. while talking to a client I scratched the coating of a super-multi-coated UV filter by trying to put on a pinch-type lens cap that was one size too small. Sometimes the protective filter saves one from errors that happen in moments of distraction.
Adam Sanford ·
Something often overlooked in this: many lenses that are considered weather-sealed require front-filtering to be so. Without a front filter in place on many Canon L lenses (I cannot speak for Nikon or Sony glass), the filter threads are a pathway for fluid or fine particle ingress, so they must be front filtered with something to seal the lens from the elements.
Carleton Foxx ·
As a side note, everytime I travel to a famous city I am blown away by the number of people using very expensive lenses with the lens hood on backwards, just as it came from the factory.
SpecialMan ·
Dear Roger,
We are going to be very sorry to lose you, but it is time for you to enroll in the Japanese language program at the University of Memphis for a couple of semesters and then get yourself a professorship at the Institute of Industrial Science, University of Tokyo, where you will be enlightening the next generation of optical engineers. Summers, of course, will be spent conducting seminars at the Institut für Optik in Berlin.
Thank you for your service and Godspeed!
Roger Cicala ·
I was thinking it was getting time for me to enroll in a surfing course or two and move to the islands. Fear of boredom, though, keeps me from taking the plunge.
Robson Robson ·
Always enjoyed surfing when living close to the ocean. You can actually do surfing in Japan (did you mean Japan by “the islands”?). When you are in Tokyo giving your classes you can either go south-west to the Kamakura/Enoshima area (Sagami Bay) or east to Chiba. After Fukushima I was happy that I used to live close to Sagami Bay and surf there as it is further away from the Fukushima reactor site… But then there is less swell there. So many things to optimize! Else, no surfing in Berlin :-(.
Robson Robson ·
Always enjoyed surfing when living close to the ocean. You can actually do surfing in Japan (did you mean Japan by "the islands"?). When you are in Tokyo giving your classes you can either go south-west to the Kamakura/Enoshima area (Sagami Bay) or east to Chiba. After Fukushima I was happy that I used to live close to Sagami Bay and surf there as it is further away from the Fukushima reactor site... But then there is less swell there. So many things to optimize! Else, no surfing in Berlin :-(.
SpecialMan ·
Dear Roger,
We are going to be very sorry to lose you, but it is time for you to enroll in the Japanese language program at the University of Memphis for a couple of semesters and then get yourself a professorship at the Institute of Industrial Science, University of Tokyo, where you will be enlightening the next generation of optical engineers. Summers, of course, will be spent conducting seminars at the Institut für Optik in Berlin.
Thank you for your service and Godspeed!
l_d_allan ·
wow … 20,000 lenses run by a family business. Well done, and have a great 2017.
l_d_allan ·
wow ... 20,000 lenses run by a family business. Well done, and have a great 2017.
Doctor Nick ·
You guys are just the cleanest photographers ever or something. I use a UV filter because I end up with random gunk on my lens, double gunk if in a sandy or dirty environment. I much prefer cleaning the filter to working on the lens front element. Especially in the field.
Andrew ·
I’m wondering why UV filters are used? I spent hours and hours reading as much as I could on the topic of front end protection about ten years ago when I began to invest in expensive lenses and I have a Nikon Clear NC Glass filter on just about all my lenses (none are Nikons) but I also have a bonnet on most of the lenses as well. I’d rather clean the salt spray, spider webs and other ‘gunk’ off the filter than touch the lens. But again, why UV as opposed to a high quality clear glass filter?
SpecialMan ·
UV filters are a relic of the film days when they helped cut through aerial haze and make photos look a little bit crisper. For reasons I do not recall—or may have never known in the first place—digital cameras don’t have the same sensitivity to UV light and so clear glass is now the preferred lens protector.
The other olden-days solution was a Skylight 1A which was slightly pink to eliminate the blue cast in pictures shot outdoors. We don’t have to worry about that with digital cameras either, though the pink can give skin a healthier look in some cases.
I myself find most lenses too sharp for people photography so I sometimes protect my lenses with a quarter-strength Tiffen Digital Diffusion filter.
Impulse_Vigil ·
There’s already (varying degrees of) UV filtering stacks on digital sensors, AFAIK that’s why extra UV filtering is pointless… I never found a good reason to opt for a UV these days either so I’ve bought clears, when I bought one at all.
OTOH I did buy a couple more intense (2A) UV filters for certain fringe scenarios where it does make a difference (Google about Oly vs Panasonic’s UV filtering differences within the same system and how lenses handle it).
Frescarosa ·
Actually on digital using a UV or clear glass is the same. Many people use UV because they are more widely available, or they kept their old film-era ones (I do!). Also prices are similar for the same quality.
leo tam ·
I do a lot of photography on construction sites – blowing sand and dust everywhere – hell, I barely want my lens helicoids to be exposed to it
Bardoliak ·
You guys are just the cleanest photographers ever or something. I use a UV filter because I end up with random gunk on my lens, double gunk if in a sandy or dirty environment. I much prefer cleaning the filter to working on the lens front element. Especially in the field.
Andrew ·
I'm wondering why UV filters are used? I spent hours and hours reading as much as I could on the topic of front end protection about ten years ago when I began to invest in expensive lenses and I have a Nikon Clear NC Glass filter on just about all my lenses (none are Nikons) but I also have a bonnet on most of the lenses as well. I'd rather clean the salt spray, spider webs and other 'gunk' off the filter than touch the lens. But again, why UV as opposed to a high quality clear glass filter?
SpecialMan ·
UV filters are a relic of the film days when they helped cut through aerial haze and make photos look a little bit crisper. For reasons I do not recall—or may have never known in the first place—digital cameras don't have the same sensitivity to UV light and so clear glass is now the preferred lens protector.
The other olden-days solution was a Skylight 1A which was slightly pink to eliminate the blue cast in pictures shot outdoors. We don't have to worry about that with digital cameras either, though the pink can give skin a healthier look in some cases.
I myself find most lenses too sharp for people photography so I sometimes protect my lenses with a quarter-strength Tiffen Digital Diffusion filter.
Impulse_Vigil ·
There's already (varying degrees of) UV filtering stacks on digital sensors, AFAIK that's why extra UV filtering is pointless... I never found a good reason to opt for a UV these days either so I've bought clears, when I bought one at all.
OTOH I did buy a couple more intense (2A) UV filters for certain fringe scenarios where it does make a difference (Google about Oly vs Panasonic's UV filtering differences within the same system and how lenses handle it).
leo tam ·
I do a lot of photography on construction sites - blowing sand and dust everywhere - hell, I barely want my lens helicoids to be exposed to it
denneboom ·
Roger, can you do a quick UV filter test to see if there is a bigger image quality loss on a telephoto than on a wide angle lens. The longer the better, as long as it has a sensible front filter size
I tried once to take pictures behind a thick window in a train, and the decrease in sharpness was much worse on the telephoto than on the wide angle.
I think it makes sense. with a telephoto the light comes in pretty perpendicular, so any distortion by a extra glass element has more impact versus a wide angle lens that accept light from a wider range, and doesn’t magnify as much.
denneboom ·
Roger, can you do a quick UV filter test to see if there is a bigger image quality loss on a telephoto than on a wide angle lens. The longer the better, as long as it has a sensible front filter size
I tried once to take pictures behind a thick window in a train, and the decrease in sharpness was much worse on the telephoto than on the wide angle.
I think it makes sense. with a telephoto the light comes in pretty perpendicular, so any distortion by a extra glass element has more impact versus a wide angle lens that accept light from a wider range, and doesn't magnify as much.
Randy Stuehm ·
What is the quality of your images and work worth?
Oleg ·
Great article, thank you. What about the large lenses that do not have any filter thread (200/2, 300/2.8, 600/4, etc…)? Those are most expensive, and a front element alone would cost probably like a regular lens.
Gearsau ·
My Nikon 300mm f2.8 AF-S, Nikon 500mm f4 AF-I, and Nikon 800mm f5.6 Manual Focus, all have a clear glass plate at the front. Factory fitted. Not an ” Optional extra “…. Standard.
My lenses without a front protective filter / glass plate, are my Nikon 8mm f2.8 , Nikon 16mm f2.8 and Nikon 14-24mm f2.8.
Turniphead ·
Excellent information as ever! Please could you do a test with a cheap and nasty filter on?
Actually that’s another potential series; MTF filter tests. Not that you’re looking for extra work, but it would be useful to know which filters are genuinely worth the extra money, and which are just brand gouging… Might be useful for you to know for your (possible) upcoming plan to rent filters on the lenses with expensive to replace front elements too!
Happy New Year!
Roger Cicala ·
We did. Google “Fun with Filters” 🙂
Turniphead ·
Thanks for the reminder Roger – I loved the 50 filter stack article!
What I was hoping for was a comparative MTF review of the good filters. Without buying them all, it’s hard to know whether you’re spending good money on something for the brand, or whether it’s genuinely for the quality.
As a matter of interest what filters do you use on the lenses that you choose to protect? I’m shooting L-series glass, on a 5D2 if that makes a difference. Having read your article I’m now re-considering a filter for the 16-35 f4 L IS, as I’ve noticed it has an aspherical front element…
Roger Cicala ·
I was afraid of that 🙂 It’s really a tough thing to compare, to do it right you’d need an interferometer to check the glass smoothness, transmission equipment, probably reflection equipment too. It’s too big of an undertaking for us, at least it would be to do it right.
Turniphead ·
Excellent information as ever! Please could you do a test with a cheap and nasty filter on?
Actually that's another potential series; MTF filter tests. Not that you're looking for extra work, but it would be useful to know which filters are genuinely worth the extra money, and which are just brand gouging... Might be useful for you to know for your (possible) upcoming plan to rent filters on the lenses with expensive to replace front elements too!
Happy New Year!
Roger Cicala ·
We did. Google "Fun with Filters" :-)
Turniphead ·
Thanks for the reminder Roger - I loved the 50 filter stack article!
What I was hoping for was a comparative MTF review of the good filters. Without buying them all, it's hard to know whether you're spending good money on something for the brand, or whether it's genuinely for the quality.
As a matter of interest what filters do you use on the lenses that you choose to protect? I'm shooting L-series glass, on a 5D2 if that makes a difference. Having read your article I'm now re-considering a filter for the 16-35 f4 L IS, as I've noticed it has an aspherical front element...
Roger Cicala ·
I was afraid of that :-) It's really a tough thing to compare, to do it right you'd need an interferometer to check the glass smoothness, transmission equipment, probably reflection equipment too. It's too big of an undertaking for us, at least it would be to do it right.
Gearsau ·
My Nikon 300mm f2.8 AF-S, Nikon 500mm f4 AF-I, and Nikon 800mm f5.6 Manual Focus, all have a clear glass plate at the front. Factory fitted. Not an " Optional extra ".... Standard.
My lenses without a front protective filter / glass plate, are my Nikon 8mm f2.8 , Nikon 16mm f2.8 and Nikon 14-24mm f2.8.
Volker Bartheld ·
Hi Roger!
I find it confusing (and a bit misleading) that people often use the term “UV-Filter” synonymous to “Protection Filter”.
While some types of glass indeed absorb UV radiation (regular plain window glass for example), others such as quartz glass (as used in – surprise! – UV radiation lamps) do not. And protection from UV radiation is not what you would be really caring about, especially if you shoot standard lenses on digital cameras: The small amount that is emitted by the sun merely makes it through the lens stack and is then absorbed to a high percentage in the AA filter (lithium niobate), so won’t degrade image quality much.
You would rather want protection from scratches, impact, acids (Ever shot in Yellowstone? My polarizer can tell a sad story…) and other environmental influences. This is where specialist filters enter the game. You probably already read about a product from Hoya the call “HD Filter PROTECTOR” (http://www.hoyafilter.com/hoya/products/hdfilters/hdfilterprotector) and it is supposed to have “Chemically Enhanced Optical Glass [which] is 4x Stronger [than standard glass]” plus some special “HD coating” that repels oil/water and resists scratches better.
I typically use those, but didn’t put them to the test yet. On the other hand alternative protection filters such as the Kenko Protector Pro1D (http://www.kenkoglobal.com/photo/filters/protector/PRO1D_Protector.html) which is in my bag as well for sure has seen better times already (shooting motocross on the 70-200 F/2.8 Nikkor) while the Hoya still looks pretty decent.
There are also some videos circulating the net (check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgMsmSdwGQI vs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4hMYDDGzzw for starters) which are quite impressive. Sure, those clips might be fake, biased, sponsored by the manufacturer or just plain snake oil. But why not subject one of your throw-away front elements to this ANSI standardized drop/impact test (ANSI Z80.3 : 2001) and see, if the Hoya does a better job?
While you probably don’t have a dedicated slow motion cam for rent, even a mediocre GoPro, flimsy tripod plus coffee mug would do. This guy here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/inch-Chrome-Steel-Ball-Bearings/dp/B002SRTXOW just has 1/2 inch diameter but you can always compensate with more height (E=1/2m*v^2)… 😉
Greets,
Volker
Brian Luscher ·
Appropriate filters for UV (e.g., UV2) can significantly reduce
chromatic aberration as well. I have found that although you can do
fair automatic chromatic aberration correction in Lightroom, it isn’t
perfect and in many outdoor lighting situations it is better to avoid
the disease than try to do a later cure.
Tuolumne ·
Window glass will let through UV-A quite effectively, which is why fabrics, posters, etc. fade over time in sunny rooms. This property of window glass can be demonstrated by using a UV-converted camera (with the appropriate UV-passing lens) to photograph in a sunny room, or even just using live view with this equipment. See also Figure 8 here: http://www.company7.com/library/nikon/Reflected_UV_Imaging_for_Forensics_V2.pdf.
However, UV-B, which causes sunburn, is filtered out by window glass.
Sean T ·
I have no truly expensive glass (my most expensive lens is my Tamron 150-600) and I have a toddler who really likes daddy’s camera stuff. I have UV filters on everything and they don’t come off. And the lens I didn’t put a filter on now has a small mark in the coating to remind me why I put UV filters on everything (SEL35OSS). Oops.
Sean T ·
I have no truly expensive glass (my most expensive lens is my Tamron 150-600) and I have a toddler who really likes daddy's camera stuff. I have UV filters on everything and they don't come off. And the lens I didn't put a filter on now has a small mark in the coating to remind me why I put UV filters on everything (SEL35OSS). Oops.
Marc P. ·
Dear Roger,
i do use UV Filters always for about ~25 years now, but just for one reason: front element protection.
1) It’s quite easier (and cheaper) to screw-on a new UV Filter, as having the whole lens being serviced because of that damaged front element.
2) It protects the front element lens from all the elements, dust, light rain, snow, smudges, tree pollen, sand, moisture, etc.
3) One doesn’t touch it accidently with the fingers, and the lens basically always looks like new.
4)Nowadays, I do use only B&W F-Pro MRC 010 UV, XS Nano Pro Variants, a few Carl Zeiss T*, and Hoya HD UV Series,
and haven’t seen any kind of image degration because of using a UV Filter as lens front element protection.
Thanks for your interesting article (as always the LensRentals Blog)
kind regards, Marc
Marc P. ·
Dear Roger,
i do use UV Filters always for about ~25 years now, but just for one reason: front element protection.
1) It's quite easier (and cheaper) to screw-on a new UV Filter, as having the whole lens being serviced because of that damaged front element.
2) It protects the front element lens from all the elements, dust, light rain, snow, smudges, tree pollen, sand, moisture, etc.
3) One doesn't touch it accidently with the fingers, and the lens basically always looks like new.
4)Nowadays, I do use only B&W F-Pro MRC 010 UV, XS Nano Pro Variants, a few Carl Zeiss T*, and Hoya HD UV Series,
and haven't seen any kind of image degration because of using a UV Filter as lens front element protection.
Thanks for your interesting article (as always the LensRentals Blog)
kind regards, Marc
Bob B. ·
Aren’t clear filters more appropriate for digital cameras? UV light affects film, no?
What Roger has to say is balanced and sensible, though. As always!
For me, I put B+W Clear MRC Nano filters on all of my lenses at purchase.
I currently own 27 lenses across two format systems.
It gives me ultimate peace-of-mind in all situations (put a price on that, please! :-)), and when I sell a lens, I get top dollar for the lens AND for the filter sold separately.
The cost has dropped on filters and the cost of the best lenses has skyrocketed.
It’s a no-brainer and my images look great…all the time.
Impulse_Vigil ·
It’s kinda curious filter prices have remained so steady… I put a filter on any of my lenses which are weather sealed (so I’m way more likely to take risks with them) or over $700… That’s actually a minority of them within my cheap/small system, but it gives me enough peace of mind and convenience.
Been using B+W clears as well… And I don’t sell any very often, so it works out. Smaller filters are even cheaper to boot. The Xume (now Manfrotto?) magnetic filter mount system looks interesting for those that really think they would use their filter situationally… Never been available <49mm so I didn't pay much attention to it but I might now that I have some larger lenses.
Bob B. ·
Aren't clear filters more appropriate for digital cameras? UV light affects film, no?
What Roger has to say is balanced and sensible, though. As always!
For me, I put B+W Clear MRC Nano filters on all of my lenses at purchase.
I currently own 27 lenses across two format systems.
It gives me ultimate peace-of-mind in all situations (put a price on that, please! :-)), and when I sell a lens, I get top dollar for the lens AND for the filter sold separately.
The cost has dropped on filters and the cost of the best lenses has skyrocketed.
It's a no-brainer and my images look great...all the time.
Impulse_Vigil ·
It's kinda curious filter prices have remained so steady... I put a filter on any of my lenses which are weather sealed (so I'm way more likely to take risks with them) or over $700... That's actually a minority of them within my cheap/small system, but it gives me enough peace of mind and convenience.
Been using B+W clears as well... And I don't sell any very often, so it works out. Smaller filters are even cheaper to boot. The Xume (now Manfrotto?) magnetic filter mount system looks interesting for those that really think they would use their filter situationally... Never been available <49mm so I didn't pay much attention to it but I might now that I have some larger lenses.
Brian Luscher ·
Appropriate filters for UV (e.g., UV2) can significantly reduce
chromatic aberration as well. I have found that although you can do
fair automatic chromatic aberration correction in Lightroom, it isn't
perfect and in many outdoor lighting situations it is better to avoid
the disease than try to do a later cure.
Bartek ·
did a test of various filters for myself once to see how (if) they affect the results I get from different lenses.
test was on a Canon 450D (12Mpix crop sensor, which was back then high-resolution) with 24-105/4 L (mkI) and 300/4 L (the nonIS oldie).evaluation based on “what my eyes see” for the lack of proper measurement instruments (and severe lack of interest in such 😉 )
it turned out to coincide with common knowledge that the longer the focal length the more impact is be visible.
@50mm only the Vari-ND filter or combination of two resin grads had clear impact on sharpness. UV’s, polarizers passed this one with flying colours
@105mm impact of single resin filters was clear. no problems whatsoever with decent UV, polarizers. slight impact for cheapo Polaroid filters (sold for 30 EUR in set of 4 filters for 67mm diameter 🙂 ) with exception of their polarizer which was significantly worse. Vari-ND useless
@300mm basically only UV filters survive intact. here no distinction between B+W’s, Hoya’s or Marumi’s. there was some impact of polarizers (any polarizer, including multicoated B+W’s and Hoya’s and Marumi’s). visible loss for cheapo Polaroids. big impact for a single resin filters, with two resins basically lost AF ability (Live View preview shows ghost image). Vari-ND (LCW Fader mkII) useful only as a soft filter for those art photographers 😉
plan to retry this shot some day with 24Mpix, will probably see more difference 😉 will post update if this ever happens
Bartek ·
did a test of various filters for myself once to see how (if) they affect the results I get from different lenses.
test was on a Canon 450D (12Mpix crop sensor, which was back then high-resolution) with 24-105/4 L (mkI) and 300/4 L (the nonIS oldie).evaluation based on "what my eyes see" for the lack of proper measurement instruments (and severe lack of interest in such ;) )
it turned out to coincide with common knowledge that the longer the focal length the more impact is be visible.
@50mm only the Vari-ND filter or combination of two resin grads had clear impact on sharpness. UV's, polarizers passed this one with flying colours
@105mm impact of single resin filters was clear. no problems whatsoever with decent UV, polarizers. slight impact for cheapo Polaroid filters (sold for 30 EUR in set of 4 filters for 67mm diameter :) ) with exception of their polarizer which was significantly worse. Vari-ND useless
@300mm basically only UV filters survive intact. here no distinction between B+W's, Hoya's or Marumi's. there was some impact of polarizers (any polarizer, including multicoated B+W's and Hoya's and Marumi's). visible loss for cheapo Polaroids. big impact for a single resin filters, with two resins basically lost AF ability (Live View preview shows ghost image). Vari-ND (LCW Fader mkII) useful only as a soft filter for those art photographers ;)
plan to retry this shot some day with 24Mpix, will probably see more difference ;) will post update if this ever happens
Glen ·
I use filters to keep gunk off the front element (or prevents scratches). After thirty years of shooting, I’ve ended up using UV or protection filters on zoom lenses and no filters on primes (except for NDs if required.) I guess I’m not using my primes very much, and I am careful when using them. I don’t have any nano coated or otherwise exotic primes – my primes are generally very old manual focus. I do try to buy better filters (mostly Hoyas).
I would be astonished to have a lens with filter threads where the filter actually touches the front element. Seems like a bit of a design flaw unless there are actually filters that have the glass protruding past the threads. Is there some sort of industry standard offset from the end of the threads to the glass?
I notice that adding a UV filter to a lens rental is free. Are these just always supplied? Or do we have to add these to the cart? (Yes, I’ve never rented a lens, but I have bought one – the front element was perfect!)
Roger Cicala ·
Glen, it’s not the filter, it’s the lens. The front element bulges out in the center, an ultra-thin filter can get screwed on tightly enough to touch – especially if it’s a wide front, like 82mm where there can be a little bowing. Canon 24-70 f/2.8 Mk II have this happen a fair amount.
Arian van der Pijl ·
It this purely because the filter touches the lens when on screwed tightly or when pushed on so it _then_ touches the front element? So the worry would only be when pushing hard on the filter but not screwing on and take care of not pushing the filter inwards?
Glen ·
I use filters to keep gunk off the front element (or prevents scratches). After thirty years of shooting, I've ended up using UV or protection filters on zoom lenses and no filters on primes (except for NDs if required.) I guess I'm not using my primes very much, and I am careful when using them. I don't have any nano coated or otherwise exotic primes - my primes are generally very old manual focus. I do try to buy better filters (mostly Hoyas).
I would be astonished to have a lens with filter threads where the filter actually touches the front element. Seems like a bit of a design flaw unless there are actually filters that have the glass protruding past the threads. Is there some sort of industry standard offset from the end of the threads to the glass?
I notice that adding a UV filter to a lens rental is free. Are these just always supplied? Or do we have to add these to the cart? (Yes, I've never rented a lens, but I have bought one - the front element was perfect!)
Roger Cicala ·
Glen, it's not the filter, it's the lens. The front element bulges out in the center, an ultra-thin filter can get screwed on tightly enough to touch - especially if it's a wide front, like 82mm where there can be a little bowing. Canon 24-70 f/2.8 Mk II have this happen a fair amount.
Marc P. ·
I’ve never seen image degradation with HQ B&W UV Filters (XS-Pro Nano, or the cheaper F-Pro 010 MRC UV), or Carl Zeiss T* UV Filters, or Hoya HD Series – and these are the 3 Brands i do use mostly, 95% – but i can recommand Tianya XS-Pro1 UV Filters, if you are onto a budget, and even for more expensive lenses. Most of my MF lenses do have Tianya, because of the cost factor. I’ve put a Zeiss T* UV onto my few Zeiss T* lenses.
The reason whileas i am using (UV) Filters is only – to protect the Front Element, from smear, dust, sand, pollen, etc…and it’s way easier, cheaper even to replace a Filter then the Front Lens Element – also, the resale value doesn’t degrade, because the Lenses are handled like raw eggs always, carefully, and doing so (with a protective Filter) the Lens looks like mint, new.
Marc P. ·
I've never seen image degradation with HQ B&W UV Filters (XS-Pro Nano, or the cheaper F-Pro 010 MRC UV), or Carl Zeiss T* UV Filters, or Hoya HD Series - and these are the 3 Brands i do use mostly, 95% - but i can recommand Tianya XS-Pro1 UV Filters, if you are onto a budget, and even for more expensive lenses. Most of my MF lenses do have Tianya, because of the cost factor. I've put a Zeiss T* UV onto my few Zeiss T* lenses.
The reason whileas i am using (UV) Filters is only - to protect the Front Element, from smear, dust, sand, pollen, etc...and it's way easier, cheaper even to replace a Filter then the Front Lens Element - also, the resale value doesn't degrade, because the Lenses are handled like raw eggs always, carefully, and doing so (with a protective Filter) the Lens looks like mint, new.
Danilics Tibor ·
I recommend UV filters for protection, last year saved one of my lens twice. I smashed 2 uv filters, the lens seems to be OK. I tried a few and I found some $5-$15 cheap, but good quality, properly coated filters from ebay. I tested them with telephoto lenses, and no visible sharpness loss. Flare minimal. Worth to save the lens.
Giulio Dallatorre ·
Isn’t a better choice a clear filter instead of an UV one for lens protection?
Roger Cicala ·
Whatever floats your boat. The UV part isn’t useful at all, but it causes no harm.
Giulio Dallatorre ·
Isn't a better choice a clear filter instead of an UV one for lens protection?
Roger Cicala ·
Whatever floats your boat. The UV part isn't useful at all, but it causes no harm.
Stephen Tyler ·
All the money spent on Nano coating the front element is completely wasted if there is a filter in-front. The Nano coating is designed to shed moisture & dirt so you can keep shooting in adverse conditions. The filter will likely not have that Nano coating, so it will fog-up and get smeary much faster.
t_linn ·
Yes, I’m replying to a six year old comment but since I’m reading it, others may read it too. 🙂
Coatings that protect from dirt and grease are referred to as oleophobic coatings. I think that this is what you are referring to in your comment. In a semi-recent LensRentals podcast, Roger made the point that these are some of the softest coatings on a lens element and don’t often survive more than a few cleanings. (That’s a summary, not a quote so let’s just say it reflects the gist of his point.) This suggests that filter or not, you’re not going to benefit from oleophobic coatings long term.
Nano or nano crystal coatings are intended to reducing ghosting and flare, and it seems fair to suggest that putting a non-nano filter on top of a nano-coated element would reduce its effectiveness. At the time you wrote your comment it was probably true that filters didn’t have nano coatings. But nano coatings are now available on the best filters from B+W (and likely others) and have been for a number of years now.
t_linn ·
Yes, I'm replying to a six year old comment but since I'm reading it, others may read it too. :-)
Coatings that protect from dirt and grease are referred to as oleophobic coatings. I think that this is what you are referring to in your comment. In a semi-recent LensRentals podcast, Roger made the point that these are some of the softest coatings on a lens element and don't often survive more than a few cleanings. (That's a summary, not a quote so let's just say it reflects the gist of his point.) This suggests that filter or not, you're not going to benefit from oleophobic coatings long term.
Nano or nano crystal coatings are intended to reducing ghosting and flare, and it seems fair to suggest that putting a non-nano filter on top of a nano-coated element would reduce its effectiveness. At the time you wrote your comment it was probably true that filters didn't have nano coatings. But nano coatings are now available on the best filters from B+W (and likely others) and have been for a number of years now.
Stefano Giovannini ·
I would like clip.on filters or uv filters held by the outer part of the lens. Like.a.see thru lens cap. Easily removed but allow shooting quickly when needed. Regarding lens hoods Sony charges an arm and a leg. I used to be able to find Nikon original, used, new or 3rd party locally at bhphoto for 7 to 25 dollars. But I lost the hood for the sony e 16-70 mm. Nowhere to be found. Can’t buy it from Sony us site. They referred me to a vendor and the price was $50. I was lucky to find one at keh for 15 or so. Sony lens hoods are.too expensive unlike sigma, Nikon, roki on Easy to lose. May gaff tape them on when in the field.
Stefano Giovannini ·
I would like clip.on filters or uv filters held by the outer part of the lens. Like.a.see thru lens cap. Easily removed but allow shooting quickly when needed. Regarding lens hoods Sony charges an arm and a leg. I used to be able to find Nikon original, used, new or 3rd party locally at bhphoto for 7 to 25 dollars. But I lost the hood for the sony e 16-70 mm. Nowhere to be found. Can't buy it from Sony us site. They referred me to a vendor and the price was $50. I was lucky to find one at keh for 15 or so. Sony lens hoods are.too expensive unlike sigma, Nikon, roki on Easy to lose. May gaff tape them on when in the field.
Andrew Young ·
Your articles are incredibly insightful and not material easy to find in a youtube video. Thanks!
jamesm007 ·
Greatly enjoy the things you do! I learn from you and your tests. You for sure can find the truth on anything photography gear related. Thank you Roger Cicala.
I guess I have a stubborn mind at times (you see where this is going). When I first got into photography, a complete newbie about ten years ago, I could to my surprise (knew nothing) see the damage cheap filters do almost every time. Don’t buy filter from a store like Walmart, a low end filter. No question.
I have seen very little (only 1 filter) problems with Hoya PRO type filters for many years. I have done many pixel peeping tests to convince me, a pixel peeper, that my personal filters are not hurting pictures that I should remove the filter. I am not promoting Hoya Filters, I have no connection with them. It’s just what I am willing to pay. they were in my price range.
If I need a Hoya 72mm UV filter say Hoya HD filter. I won’t shop for the cheapest 72mm Hoya HD UV filter, that to me is asking for problems. I shop for a decent normal price and buy from well rated sellers. Common sense buying you could say, that most of us do.
Now that being said. The last Hoya filter I buy did hurt the IQ of my 35mm f/2.4 lens. The lens has very low reflectiveness, the front element looks dark. Meaning light does not bounce back off the glass much. A Hoya Pro1 Digital filter showed ghosting under the right condition. I then subjected all my filters and lens to the same test. Only this lens filter combo had a problem. FWIW the funny part is this lens uses a coating Pentax calls its ghostless coating. Well it works as claimed if you don’t ruin it by putting a filter in front of it.
I am not saying your findings are wrong, they are right. But as long as the filter does not hurt my pictures that I can see with my eyes, I use them on some lens.
For me. When I determine my filter is not hurting IQ at all. I keep them on some (not all) of my lens to protect the front element from flying debri and years of chronic cleaning. I am just echoing what you wrote in my personal experience.
I wonder, I think I would bet most front elements get harmed more from people cleaning them versus something hitting them. Only you may know that.
jamesm007 ·
Greatly enjoy the things you do! I learn from you and your tests. You for sure can find the truth on anything photography gear related. Thank you Roger Cicala.
I guess I have a stubborn mind at times (you see where this is going). When I first got into photography, a complete newbie about ten years ago, I could to my surprise (knew nothing) see the damage cheap filters do almost every time. Don't buy a filter from a store like Walmart, any low end filter. No question.
I have seen very little (only 1 filter) problems with Hoya PRO type filters for many years. I have done many pixel peeping tests to convince me, a pixel peeper, that my personal filters are not hurting my pictures, that I should remove the filter. I am not promoting Hoya Filters, I have no connection with them. It's just what I am willing to pay.
If I need a Hoya 72mm UV filter, say Hoya HD filter. I won't shop for the cheapest 72mm Hoya HD UV filter, that to me is asking for problems. I shop for a decent normal price and buy from well rated sellers. Common sense buying you could say, that most of us do.
Now that being said. The last Hoya filter I bought did hurt the IQ of my Pentax 35mm f/2.4 lens. The lens has very low reflectiveness, the front element looks dark. Meaning light does not bounce back off the glass much. A Hoya Pro1 Digital filter showed ghosting under the right condition. I then subjected all my filters and lens to the same test. Only this lens filter combo had a problem. FWIW the funny part is this lens uses a coating Pentax calls its ghostless coating. Well it works as claimed if you don't ruin it by putting a filter in front of it.
I am not saying your findings are wrong. Just for me when I determine my filter is not hurting IQ at all. I keep them on some (not all) of my lens to protect the front element from flying debri and years of chronic cleaning. I am just echoing what you wrote in my personal experience.
I wonder, I think I would bet most front elements get harmed more from people cleaning them versus something hitting them. Only you may know that.
Arnklars ·
This is the best and most comprehensive explanation I have ever read and it cleared a lot of confusion. thank you Roger. Regards Lars.
CA Geographer (near Roseville) ·
Window glass will let through UV-A quite effectively, which is why fabrics, posters, etc. fade over time in sunny rooms. This property of window glass can be demonstrated by using a UV-converted camera (with the appropriate UV-passing lens) to photograph in a sunny room, or even just using live view with this equipment. See also Figure 8 here: http://www.company7.com/lib....
However, UV-B, which causes sunburn, is filtered out by window glass.
Immanuel ·
The main benefit of using a UV filter is to avoid having to clean dust from the lens, and prevent fingerprints. Both dust and fingerprints are easy to remove from filters (which are flat): it’s easier to clean the filters than the curved front elements. If I am in a high-flare situation, I will remove the filters temporarily. Most of my photography is outdoors. Summary: It’s easier and better to keep a lens clean than to clean it constantly.
Immanuel ·
The main benefit of using a UV filter is to avoid having to clean dust from the lens, and prevent fingerprints. Both dust and fingerprints are easy to remove from filters (which are flat): it's easier to clean the filters than the curved front elements. If I am in a high-flare situation, I will remove the filters temporarily. Most of my photography is outdoors. Summary: It's easier and better to keep a lens clean than to clean it constantly.
Vulture ·
20,000 lenses; by now even some die hard collector’s would be impressed… 😉
Tyckonom ·
20,000 lenses; by now even some die hard collector's would be impressed... ;)
Michael Clark ·
Or you could just keep banging away at your $100 nifty fifty with a hammer until you finally manage to leave a scratch.
https://youtu.be/vzOLbMPe0u8
Jan Steinman ·
On the other end, if you love vintage glass, you may find that a new front element is made of pure Unobtanium, which may warrant protection!
Jan Steinman ·
On the other end, if you love vintage glass, you may find that a new front element is made of pure Unobtanium, which may warrant protection!
Arian van der Pijl ·
So is it still applicable that there is a possibility in the screw on filter touching the front element? Specifically, the Canon RF 15-35mm F2.8 L IS USM and the Canon RF 24-70mm F2.8 L IS USM lenses? I did mount a 82mm filter (HOYA Protector HDX) and I could not see any damage fortunately but the procedure itself took soms years of my life 🙂
Arian van der Pijl ·
So is it still applicable that there is a possibility in the screw on filter touching the front element? Specifically, the Canon RF 15-35mm F2.8 L IS USM and the Canon RF 24-70mm F2.8 L IS USM lenses? I did mount a 82mm filter (HOYA Protector HDX) and I could not see any damage fortunately but the procedure itself took soms years of my life :)