Equipment

Roger’s Rants: My Canon/Nikon Mirrorless Camera Unfanboy Opinion

I’ve gotten about 632 texts and emails over the last couple of weeks. About half of them are “I’m a Nikon / Canon shooter. Should I preorder a Z / RF camera?” My answer is generally no. The reason is simple; unless you just have to play with the new technology and have money to burn, wait until the 2nd generation when the prices are way lower, some of the bugs are worked out, and more native lenses are available. (Yes, I’m aware you can shoot lenses on an adapter. You can also shoot lenses on the SLR you already have.)

The other half of the questions are “Who has the best mirrorless camera.” My answer is generally I refuse to play fanboy wars, which are typically nasty discussions between people who are already committed to a brand and people who have never tried the brand. But, of course, at this moment in time, Sony has the best mirrorless full-frame cameras. They should, they’ve released about a dozen of them, while Canon and Nikon have not quite released 1 and 2 respectively.

A few people, though, knowing I rarely recommend Generation 1 technology and don’t wallow in the fanboy cesspool, have asked “So where do you think this is going.” That’s a good question. And following my usual ‘often wrong but never in doubt‘ philosophy of life, I’m willing to speculate.

Cameras and Electronics

Sony has a much more mature technology which gives them a lead, of course. They also are a huge electronics company and sensor manufacturer, so I think it’s reasonable to believe they’ll keep that lead for the next couple of years. Then again, being Sony, they have a menu that is best described as ‘you get used to it.’ I think Canon and Nikon did really well as far as first generation ergonomics, especially if the goal was to keep their own customers from migrating over to Sony.

Both Canon and Nikon did one thing I hadn’t really expected, and the more I’ve researched it, the more important I think it will be. They went with very wide mounts (54mm for the Canon R, 55mm for the Nikon Z6/7). This is an especially big jump for Nikon (the F-mount was only 44mm) and wider than Sony’s 46.1mm E mount. Why does this matter? Because of optics.

Optical Differences

A wider mount allows lens designers more freedom. Wider aperture lenses are possible. Mount diameter is one reason Canon had f/1.2 lenses, and Nikon hasn’t, for example. Wider lens mounts also allow lens designers more freedom to correct aberrations and do all kinds of cute optical things. I’m sure the designers at both firms are salivating at the fun they’re going to have.

One thing to always remember, though, is lens design is still a compromise. The graphic from Canon’s white paper on the new mount shows it perfectly.

Thorpe, L: A New Lens-Camera System. Canon White Paper. https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/misc-pages/eos-r/pdf/canon_eos_r_white_paper.pdf

Designers can reduce the size and weight of a given lens, improve the optical performance, or increase aperture on the new mounts. To a lesser degree, they can do two out of three, and perhaps to a small degree all three in a given lens.

What Will This Mean?

At this moment in time, Sony has a much larger native-mount lens selection. They have also demonstrated the ability to release lenses at a very rapid pace and will have more native-mount lenses for years to come. Canon certainly has the resources to catch Sony if they want but given Canon’s conservative nature and dominant SLR position; I don’t expect that (but remember, I’m often wrong). I don’t think Nikon has the resources to do so for two reasons. First, Nikon has, in recent history, released new lenses at a slower pace. Second, Nikon has downsized significantly, and this has included lens designers. I meet a lot of designers and engineers from a lot of companies and ‘formerly at Nikon’ seems to be part of the introduction most of the time.

But both Nikon and Canon designers will have a significant advantage to work with going forward. Sony, Canon, and Nikon all make some excellent lenses. Going forward I think Canon and Nikon will have the opportunity to perhaps make ‘more exceptionaller’ lenses.

However, when we discuss optics and imaging we have to address the pink elephant in the room; image manipulation. Obviously, in-camera jpgs are strongly influenced by in-camera processing, but more and more we see evidence that RAW files are also manipulated in-camera. Electronic correction of optical aberrations may make optical differences in lenses less apparent, although it will never eliminate it.

What About All That Other Stuff?

Most of that I find rather inconsequential, although it’s obviously life-and-death to many Fanboys. One has in-body stabilization; the other doesn’t. One has probably better focusing than the other. I can’t imagine anyone is going to change from Nikon to Canon based on the mirrorless system.

A lot of people will buy their brand’s 1st Generation mirrorless cameras and use an adapter. Personally, I think Canon’s Control Ring is the most interesting thing I see for right now, and making it available on an adapter was brilliant. Lots of people won’t use it. I will, though, it seems very usable and intuitive to me.

But these first-generation cameras feature-for-feature probably aren’t as good as Sony’s multiple current offerings. Both will be more competitive in a year or two, although I suspect Sony’s cameras will have some advantages still. They’ll certainly be good enough for job 1, which is to slow the migration away from their own brand over to Sony.

My own opinion is eventually (3-5 years) mirrorless will be a significant portion of both Nikon and Canon’s business and the lenses, more than the cameras, will be the driving force. The early lens releases probably give us a hint of how each manufacturer plans to go forward.

Nikon Mirrorless Rentals

Nikon started with three very practical native-mount lenses; a 24-70mm f/4 and 50mm f/1.8 and 35mm f/1.8 primes. Given the optical triad of performance, size, and specifications, Nikon seems to be leaning towards the compromise of somewhat smaller and somewhat better optically while fleshing out a practical, useful lineup. Their roadmap looks to emphasize useful and practical, but there is the spectacularly dramatic 58mm f0.95 on deck.

Canon Mirrorless Rentals

Canon started with three show-off lenses (and I don’t mean that in a bad way; I love optical show-offing). The 50mm f/1.2 and 28-70mm f/2.0 are all about amazing optics and big apertures, but they are huge beasts. The 35mm f/1.8 Macro is a bit smaller, a bit wider aperture, good optics, and a Macro feature (not that I’ve ever found 35mm full-frame macro lenses particularly useful), while the 24-105 IS is practical. Canon hasn’t released a roadmap but has said they are working on a series of fast lenses of f/2.8 or more, so I suspect some workhorse zooms are upcoming.

Logic suggests that from a pure optics standpoint upcoming Canon RF and Nikon Z lenses may be better than Sony’s, although it will be years before they have a similarly broad lineup. Logic also suggests Canon RF and Nikon Z lenses will be better than their SLR lenses; perhaps more so for Nikon who has a much larger mount now.

For both companies, the adapted lens route certainly makes it practical to dip a toe into their mirrorless offerings, although for me it will be another generation before I do. It won’t be a long wait for those with patience. Look at how much the Sony A7 series has improved over basically three years. Then again, Sony won’t be standing still over the next couple of years, either.

Interesting times.

 

Roger Cicala

Lensrentals.com

September, 2018

 

You can preorder the Canon R and Nikon Z6/Z7 now.

 

Author: Roger Cicala

I’m Roger and I am the founder of Lensrentals.com. Hailed as one of the optic nerds here, I enjoy shooting collimated light through 30X microscope objectives in my spare time. When I do take real pictures I like using something different: a Medium format, or Pentax K1, or a Sony RX1R.

Posted in Equipment
  • bdbender4

    Obvious troll alert. I have had 6 Fuji bodies and 10 lenses, and have sold them all. That doesn’t make Fuji bad, just my preference. The X-T3 and 16-55 zoom are about the same size and weight and in-the-ballpark price as the Nikon Z6 and 24-70. I personally don’t want something that large and heavy and pricey in APS-C when I can now have it in FF.

  • i_felonious

    thank you Roger. So how long will EF be with us? will the 5d Mark V be DSLR, Mirrorless or maybe both?

  • Chik Sum

    Hi roger,

    I am kinda of an interested 5D3 user, although at this point I am still preferring the ovf feeling it seems the RF mount is the way forward.

    The adapter with control ring is surely a sexy thing, but I remember read your article some years ago that no adapter is going to do good for optical bench testing, and that in somewhere else I saw ppl actually reporting with wide lenses it’s actually noticeable for misalignment even with great adapters like the metabones.

    Can you test a few of the adapter from canon and Nikon themselves and see if the result will be more controlled and acceptable as for no practical loss of IQ? I did cane into customers zoom in a group photo and complain for side unevenness with a very slightly tilted lens before

  • wshinn

    Your taking it a bit extreme here, but whatever makes your ego feel good. I don’t care about the brand but I do care about color science and Nikon and Canon don’t have it. I’ll shoot natural skin tones all day. I’m done here I have better things to do than read your bitterness.

  • Carl

    I sure hope Canon releases bigger RF bodies with a more traditional DSLR button layout. I can adjust shutter, aperture, and ISO all with one hand on my 5DIV….why would I want a setup that makes me use 2 hands (i.e. aperture on lens dial)? I like the added functionality, don’t get me wrong…but lets not lose what was so right about the Canon DSLR form-factor and button layout.

  • Very good points, Dave. That makes perfect sense.

  • Graham Stretch

    I think it was fairly evident that this article was solely about the new FF mirrorless offerings when it talked about first generation hardware, I don’t know about Nikon but Canon has several generations of APS C mirrorless bodies available!
    Based on this it would seem that it ignores Nikon, Canon, Sony and Fuji crop sensor mirrorless bodies for complete fairness of the article! ?

  • dave9t5

    Roger, the control ring on the lens has some bigger potential implications for Canon’s body design and market control plans in the longer term.

    In Canon’s article, that you link to, they state “An important reason is the change in control layout on the compact EOS R camera […] with the smaller EOS R, many of those buttons no longer adorn the rear or top of the camera body.”

    This seems hint at a direction for EOS-R bodies. Future EOSR bodies (perhaps basic models at lower price points or super compact bodies) could be made with very limited on-body controls such as no dials.

    One justification would be to save cost or reduce size on the body. Certainly mirrorless bodies are getting smaller but the lenses are not, so it makes sense to try to move some controls to the available real estate on the lens.

    But equally important, in order to have a complete set of controls the camera system would require both native body and lens. That would potentially exclude 3rd party lens makers from offering lenses compatible with these bodies with partial controls as they would have to circumvent patents and communications protocols. A buyer for such “entry level” or super-compact bodies would have to buy native Canon lenses. Users could still purchase more expensive models that have on-body controls and pay a “compatibility tax”.

  • SolJuJo

    Whenever I see the pictures of the four pretty cool Canon lenses, I look at their mounts and keep on thinking “why is it necessary for Canon to sort of equalize the sizes?” Or make them look like organ pipes while in real life the 28-70 is kind of a glass bucket? Anyway, not important, I enjoyed another excellent read of one of the wiser persons in the photographic internet world, thanks a lot.

  • SolJuJo

    No, he’s talking about two new players in mirrorless market and the perspective he expects them to have.

    Throwing in stupid, brainless sentences like “Honor it or walk away.” falls back to yourself. Take your own advice more seriously.

  • SolJuJo

    You mean with the tremendous IBIS the X-T3 has? Or the fully articulated LCD? Or the rather laggy touchscreen Fuji is able to make? The forgotten user settings among the masses of dials? In terms of dynamic range 12 stops are already a little bit dated. Look, if one ever goes to a Fuji forum and dares to point out some tiny features might be a little so-so, it’s a thing of nanoseconds until the first Fuji fan boy hastes around the corner with a glowing torch to send the intruder back to the dark lands of the less illuminated.

    So, this blog post didn’t sail under false flag, it clearly states the subject will be Canon/Nikon mirrorless – it doesn’t say “fair comparison of all mirrorless stuff available”. 😉 Settle down at the shiny lands of green red white suns, enjoy the endless superiority of a new body which is already in the “special offer zone” before it hits the shelves.

    It’s not a question of “beats the two systems” as these will have a couple of following bodies and start with masses of genuine lenses to go very well with the bodies. And if you come up with “size and weight”, just take a look at the last Fuji lenses – no significant smaller size than their FF equivalent counterparts, price about the same as FF lenses. Great stuff, no doubt, but it will take a bit more than only more buttons and dials.

  • wshinn

    The XT3 has 12 stops with their BSI X trans 4 sensor. Also, the first system to feature a quad core processing unit. These are things that are clearly missed in this article. You may want to read my post again. I don’t agree this is a fair and just article. You have your opinion. I have mine. The XT3 beats out these two systems in so many ways except FF. It’s just what it is.

  • You may wish to read the title again. It clearly says “Nikon” and “Canon” and not Fuji. You appear to be on the wrong page… I am curious though, where is your evidence for the claim that the XT3 has better dynamic range than the Z7? Bill Claff’s data shows the D850 has close to 12 stops photographic dynamic range at base ISO against the X-T2 with 10. In order for the XT3 to beat the Z7, Fuji would have had to improve their sensor by at least two stops, or Nikon would have had to drop the ball and go down two stops, or a mix of both. Where’s your evidence that that has happened?

  • wshinn

    That’s not what his article is about. Maybe you should read it. He’s talking about the mirrorless systems. There’s no need to demean me but I guess it makes yourself feel good. My comment was never designed to initiate offense but apparently it did to your sensitivity. This doesn’t bother me as I have plenty of work. I just don’t believe this article is well rounded. It’s my perspective not yours. Honor it or walk away.

  • Panacea

    And yet you still can’t tell an APS-C camera from a 135-format camera, and understand why it’s pointless to compare the two. Tsk tsk.

  • wshinn

    What phrase? I’ve been a professional photographer for 16 years, I’ve shot with canon for 7, Nikon for 7 and Fuji for 2. All three are amazing brands.

  • Panacea

    You keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means.

  • wshinn

    Who rained on your parade? Lol.

  • wshinn

    The Fuji XT3 has one more card slot than both these cameras and better dynamic range. Oh wait, that’s not mentioned in the article. Again, I don’t care about the brand but a justified report on mirrorless cameras.

  • wshinn

    They are all Fuji XT3, Canon EOS R, Nikon Z series are all mirrorless. Which beckons the full report on mirrorless systems. I could care less about the brand. I just want a proper report. Spare me the silly comments .

  • Panacea

    A worthy entry for poorer, more-feeble photographers who can’t afford/handle a 135-format MILC. And children.

    /s

  • That will be interesting. Nothing, even my optical bench, shows the flaws in a lens like astrophotography.

  • Panacea

    A worthy entry for poorer, more-feeble photographers who can’t afford/handle a 135-format MILC.

  • Ph?m Anh

    Have you ever seen anyone mentioned Canon 5D mk IV in a comparison between gfx 50s, 645z, Phase One?
    Mr. Not-A-Fanboy, please spare us the common sense.

  • A full frame sensor has 2.5 times the surface area of an APS-C sensor.

  • wshinn

    They aren’t in a different class. I don’t see how that is justified when a camera is just a tool. There are many choices our now. I’m not a fanboy but I think it’s ignorant to not include the Fuji XT3 in this article considering it was announced they day after the new canon. This article does no justice to discussing cameras as a whole, not just two brands .

  • The Fuji X-T3 is an APS-C sized sensor, so it’s not really a worthy comparison to the Sony a7’s and the new Nikon and Canon mirrorless systems.

    That’s not to say that Fuji’s are inferior…they’re just in a different class.

  • Bennie The Bouncer

    I’m still waiting for a wide-angle, large-aperture lens that doesn’t suffer from horrific coma and chromatic aberration when shooting the night sky. I’m perfectly happy with my (Canon 6Dmk1) camera, as when it has a good lens, it takes great pictures. I’ve yet to find a good, wide lens for it though, and I’ve tried a lot of lenses. 🙁

    I do wonder if the wider mount will open the door for this, and if so, I could possibly be persuaded to make the leap. We will see.

  • FredLinda Lord

    I’m waiting for Canon to make further improvements despite my strong inclination to jump in and be a beta tester. Sony is not on my radar and Nikon is no better at this point despite the recent introduction of the 500mm f/5.6.

  • wshinn

    What about the fuji XT3?

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