Geek Articles

More Ultra High-Resolution MTF Experiments

GEEK ALERT!!

Let’s be absolutely clear; this is not a practical or useful article. It won’t help your photography or cinematography become better. It won’t help you choose equipment any time in the next couple of years. It won’t provide any fodder for your next Forum War. It’s just a geek article that may interest some people. It may give a little peek into what may come in the future, and some insight into the kind of work we’re actually doing behind the scenes at Olaf. So if you’re interested in that kind of stuff, read along

A couple of years ago, a testing customer asked us to find which lenses could get maximum resolution from a 150-megapixel sensor. Many people assumed that the highest resolving lenses at standard resolutions would be the highest resolving lenses at higher resolutions. Assumptions are the dark matter of the internet; we can’t see them, but we know they account for most of the mass.

We try hard not to assume, so we tested a bunch of lenses at high frequencies on the MTF bench (high-frequency MTF is basically high resolution on the camera). This requires testing MTF at ultra-high resolutions, way higher than any camera of today. The manufacturer wanted 240 lp/mm (compared to the 50 lp/mm we use currently). I wasn’t sure that was necessary, and actually wasn’t sure we could do it, so we settled on 200 lp/mm. If you want some understanding of what all that means, you can read the above post or Brandon Dube’s excellent post. Or you can just accept it and move on.

There was no photo or video lens that could resolve 200 lp/mm wide-open. (Our standard for ‘resolve’ was an MTF 0f 0.3; an MTF of 0.2 was borderline. There’s some evidence to support those cut-offs, but someone could argue them. Wait, this is the internet. Someone WILL argue them; it’s what someone lives for.)

We did find several prime lenses that could meet those criteria stopped down to f/4 in the center of the image, but none could near the edges. The best results were for the Zeiss Otus 85mm f/1.4 lens at f/4. A few other lenses (Zeiss 135mm f/2 APO-Sonnar; Sigma 135mm f/1.8 DG HSM Art; Zeiss 55mm f1.4 Otus) were acceptable at f/4 in the middle portion of the image. Nothing wider than 50mm was really acceptable, although the Canon 35mm f1.4 Mk II and Sigma 35mm f/1.4 Art were close.

Back to the Future

Two years later, that customer asked us if we knew of any other lenses that they should consider. There’ve been a lot of lenses released since we did these tests, and some of those lenses fit the criteria for possible ‘ultra-high’ resolution; primes with focal lengths of 85mm or more. The manufacturers are obviously making these lenses with at least moderately higher resolution cameras in mind. So perhaps some of the newer lenses would resolve ‘ultra-high’ frequencies better than some of the older lenses we had tested.

So we checked some new lenses all the way up to 240 lp/mm, something sufficient to make a 200 megapixel FF camera worthwhile. To be clear, this is NOT coming to a camera near you anytime soon; it’s a research project. But if the researchers are making such a sensor, it makes sense they want to know which lenses would get the best results from the sensor. It is not a test for if the lens or sensor out resolves the other, because that doesn’t happen.  (For those of you who believe in perceptual megapixels or that the earth is flat, I’ve included an appendix to clarify this a bit – with no math more complicated than multiplication.)

The Best We Found Last Time

Last time we found some tendencies: longer focal lengths perform better, and f/4 is the minimum aperture that any lens can resolve such high frequencies. To give you a reference, here are several lenses that met our criteria last time (notice on these we set the highest frequency at 200 lp/mm).

Sigma 135mm f/1.8 DG HSM Art at f/4

Lensrentals.com, 2017

Zeiss 85mm APO-Planar Otus at f/4

Lensrentals.com, 2017

Zeiss 55mm Otus Distagon at f/4

Lensrentals.com, 2017

Canon EF 35mm f/1.4 Mk II USM

Lensrentals.com, 2017

The 35mm Lens Whose Name Cannot Be Spoken

You’ve seen the best results we had from lenses you could actually buy and use. We did see one lens that you can’t purchase, a prototype lens that will probably never be made, that was truly amazing, particularly for a 35mm focal length.

Olaf Optical Testing, 2017

So here is a 35mm lens that is as good as the 55m Otus; it’s that it’s this good at f/2.8 and doesn’t improve much at f/4. I put this up just to show that current lenses are not designed to do their best at ultra-high resolution, but they could be.

 We Wanna Take it Higher

Last time around, we set our peak at 200 lp/mm, even though the client really wanted 240 lp/mm. We didn’t think the higher number was really necessary, and honestly, we weren’t sure that any of our lenses would adequately resolve even 200 lp/mm. This time, though, we felt comfortable we could test at 240 lp, and doing that, let us also test at 192 lp/mm, which is pretty close to the original 200 lp peak.

For starters, we repeated the test using a Sigma 135mm f1.8 Art. You can compare it to the one done at 200 lp up above. Remember, these are single copy tests, so there is a little sample variation, but you can see the light blue line of this run (192 lp/mm) is comparable to the purple line of the previous lens (200 lp/mm). Even at 240 lp/mm, the MTF still exceeds our ‘borderline’ MTF cut-off of 0.2, at least in the center, but it doesn’t quite reach and MTF of 0.3.

Lensrentals.com, 2019

We’ll consider this our standard for the new tests, then, and see if any of the other lenses do as well.

Results for New Lenses

Sony 135mm f1.8 GM

We’ll start with the usual “Roger had expectations and was disappointed” part, because, after all, disappointment is the sole purpose of expectations. One of the reasons I was excited about testing new lenses was that the Sony 135mm f/1.8 GM had the best normal-range MTF scores we’d ever seen, besting the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art. It seemed logical that it might also best the Sigma in ultra-high resolution tests. Reality 1, Logic 0. We tried the lens at f/4, but it was actually a bit better at f/5, which we show below. At high frequency, it’s not as good as the Sigma.

Lensrentals.com, 2019

Let me repeat, for those of you who want to mistake this test as having something to do with, say, the 60-megapixel full-frame camera you’re shooting; it doesn’t. Somewhere around 80 lp/mm would be more than sufficient for that. If you compare the orange lines of the Sony and Sigma 135mm graphs, you’ll see that at 96 lp/mm the Sony is actually a bit better than the Sigma. At ridiculously high frequencies, the Sigma is better. The takeaway message is important: better MTF at one frequency doesn’t mean better MTF at all frequencies.

So let’s look at a couple of other candidates I thought might do really well.

Sigma 105mm f1.4 Art at f/4

Even though this copy was slightly tilted, in the center, at least, it is the first lens to make, albeit barely make, our ‘acceptable’ cut-off of MTF 0.3 at 240 lp/mm. At 192 lp/mm, it actually touches MTF of 0.4. So we have a new high-resolution champion, and that’s despite, as you can see below, this copy of the lens having a slight tilt.

Lensrentals.com, 2019

Zeiss APO Sonnar 100mm f/1.4 Otus at f/4

Another good contender; not quite as good as the Sigma 105mm, but very similar to the Sigma 135mm.

Lensrentals.com, 2019

Canon 90mm f2.8L TS-E Macro

This one I had low expectations for, but we had one handy, so we thought we’d give it a try. Set your expectations low, and they will be met. Again, don’t get me wrong, this is a really, really good lens, it’s just not as good at ultra-high resolutions.

Lensrentals.com, 2019

Sigma 40mm f1.4 Art

We learned from earlier testing that wider-angle lenses don’t do as well at these frequencies. But the Sigma 40mm Art tested so spectacularly at normal MTF that we thought it was worth a shot, at least.

Lensrentals.com, 2019

Here’s a case where good at normal resolution translates to good at ridiculously high resolution. This is close to, although not quite as high in the center as the Otus 55mm. It stays acceptable further away from the center than the Otus 55mm does, however.

Summary:

I say summary, because there are no practical or useful conclusions to be made. The only thing of interest, probably, is that only really good lenses can resolve ultra-high resolutions you’ll never need. However, even among these really good lenses, you can’t assume how a lens will perform at ultra-high resolutions based on its results at normal resolutions. You can also see that ultra-high-resolution performance is a bit easier to obtain in short telephoto focal lengths than in standard or wide-angle lengths.

Oh, yeah, and you can also wonder why someone, somewhere, is wondering what lenses will perform well at resolutions more than twice as high as what you might need today.

 

Roger Cicala, Aaron Closz, and Brandon Dube

Lensrentals.com

October, 2019

Appendix: Why Perceptual Megapixels are Stupid

I get asked several times a week if this lens or that is ‘capable of resolving’ this number of megapixels. Some people seem to think a lens should be ‘certified’ for a certain number of pixels or something. That’s not how it works. That’s not how any of it works.

How it does work is this. Any image you capture is not as sharp as reality. Take a picture of a bush and enlarge it to 100%. You probably can’t see if there are ants on the leaves. But in reality, you could walk over to the bush (enlarge it if you will) and see if there are ants by looking at a couple of leaves.

What if I got a better camera and a better lens? Well, theoretically, things would be so good I could see the ants if I enlarged the image enough. MTF is somewhat of a measurement of how sharp that image would be and how much detail it contains. (The detail part would be the higher frequency MTF.) That would, of course, be the MTF of the entire system, camera, and lens.

Lots of people think that will be ‘whichever is less of the camera and lens.’ For example, my camera can resolve 61 megapixels, but my lens can only resolve 30 megapixels, so all I can see is 30 megapixels.

That’s not how it works. How it does work is very simple math: System MTF = Camera MTF x Lens MTF. MTF maxes at 1.0 because 1.0 is perfect. So let’s say my camera MTF is 0.7, and my lens MTF is 0.7, then my system MTF is 0.49 (Lens MTF x Camera MTF). This is actually a pretty reasonable system.

Now, let’s say I get a much better camera with much higher resolution; the camera MTF is 0.9. The system MTF with the same lens also increases: 0.7 X 0.9 = 0.63. On the other hand, I could do the same thing if I bought a much better lens and kept it on the same camera. The camera basically never ‘out resolves the lens.’

You could kind of get that ‘perceptual megapixel’ thing if either the lens (or the camera) really sucks. Let say we were using a crappy kit zoom lens with an MTF of 0.3. With the old camera; 0.3 X 0.7 =.21. Let’s spend a fortune on the newer, better camera, and we get 0.3 X 0.9 = 0.27. So our overall system MTF only went up a bit (0.07) because the lens really sucked. But if it had been just an average lens or a better lens (let say the MTF was 0.6 or 0.8), we’d have gotten a pretty similar improvement.

If you have a reasonably good lens and/or a reasonably good camera, upgrading either one upgrades your images. If you ask something like ‘is my camera going to out resolve this lens’ you sound silly.

Roger’s rule: If you have either a crappy lens or crappy camera, improve the crappy part first; you get more bang for your $. I just saw a thread for someone wanting to upgrade to the newest 60-megapixel camera, and all of his lenses were average zooms. I got nauseous.

Author: Roger Cicala

I’m Roger and I am the founder of Lensrentals.com. Hailed as one of the optic nerds here, I enjoy shooting collimated light through 30X microscope objectives in my spare time. When I do take real pictures I like using something different: a Medium format, or Pentax K1, or a Sony RX1R.

Posted in Geek Articles
  • boeck hannes

    I’d bet Otus 35. That’s conspicuously missing in the lineup.

  • bokesan

    Given how pronounced the center peak of many lenses gets at higher frequency, I wonder about field curvature. Are we back to “subject in the center” shots with more MP or it actually not this worse?

  • BoredErica

    Can you explain why people think moire is the result of ‘lens outresolving the sensor’ and why that is wrong?

  • Dragon

    Those charts do reinforce the need for an AAF even on high resolution cameras if you are shooting anything with repeating patterns and using good lenses.

  • Brandon Dube

    I assumed fixed pixel size and F/#

  • Athanasius Kirchner

    Nope, they’d have no way to test it, as they don’t own a mount for it.

    But it makes for a great conspiracy theory ?

  • JordanViray

    If we consider resolution to be the finest thing that can be resolved, then there is only one measure that matters, extinction resolution. We might choose a longer wavelength in the visible spectrum to be conservative for typical photographic applications but that tells us the finest thing that can be resolved. Not MTF20 or MTF30. With all respect to Brian Thompson, both of us do notice and care about lower contrast levels whether at optical or system level.

    Note I was careful not to say lenses are the determinant of MP but given that they can resolve a certain number of black and white line pairs at a given contrast level, we can calculate MP from that. Here is my thinking:

    We have an f/2 and an f/4.82 diffraction limited lens (at 550nm) on a so-called 1/2″ sensor (6.4×4.8mm). 16 million square pixels on such a sensor corresponds to a linear frequency of 361. The f/2 lens provides MTF50 and the f/4.82 lens provides MTF1 at that frequency. Unless I’ve missed something (some condition of PSF or miscalculation on my part?), that system should be realizable. Granted the MTF for both will improve at lower frequencies so the f/4.82 lens won’t look so bad in practice, but it will at that frequency.

    As always, I appreciate you taking the time to share your expertise.

  • J.L. Williams

    Fascinating article. I was especially taken by the observation that Lens A can outperform Lens B at merely high frequencies, but underperform at ultra-high ones. I’d love to know why that is, but maybe Feynman was right about sticking with the math and not trying to ask why…

    I also appreciated the takedown of “perceptual megapixels” and wondered if another frequently-flung-around concept, “per-pixel sharpness,” is another example of the same type of thing… I figure a pixel has only one value, so how can one be sharper than another?

  • Brandon Dube

    Not to rub it in (but totally to rub it in) – I went to Tartine over the weekend and have half of a country loaf on my counter 🙂

    Things are pretty settled these days. I still have to go to the DMV and re-register my car and transfer my license – that’s the last major thing. Of course, “next weekend or the weekend after” is busy parlance for “may or may not happen” …

  • Please!!! I haven’t bothered you cause I figured settling in at JPL was taking some time. BTW – Aaron’s sick that his trip got canceled.

  • Brandon Dube

    Strictly speaking, MTF is not a function of wavelength. It’s a function of the spectral content of the object.

  • Brandon Dube

    But that’s just it. If we’re defining the “resolution” of something, then that figure of merit should correspond to the finest thing that can be resolved. MTF-50 corresponds to something so easily detected that no one in their right mind would associate it with the finest thing that can be resolved.

    MTF-20 is an age old guidance from Brian Thompson that is well based in logic. MTF-30 for a lens, accounting for 64% contrast from the sensor at Nyquist, is a good proxy for MTF-20 at the system level, which is what you really want.

    Ignoring that lenses do not provide “MP,” you cannot have 16 <> in two cases, one with MTF-50 and the other MTF-1. They are too far apart to the point that it is unphysical and such a system cannot be realized.

  • Dave Hachey

    Good idea. I just reread your article on PSFs, aberrations, and MTF. Nice article,

  • JordanViray

    MTF50 is what it is, a contrast level that some people (Imatest mainly it seems) have decided to pick as a baseline for good contrast and the baseline for their lens resolution scores. It may be somewhat arbitrary but it is useful on account of the sheer number of measurements testers have provided with it, i.e., I can reliably compare MTF50 resolution among tested lenses from sites using Imatest and similar cameras. Although I do not know the mathematics behind SQF, I am very sure that higher System MTF curves will translate to higher SQF scores – perhaps not for viewing Instagram on a smartphone but certainly for viewing on future large 8K displays or large format prints where people can walk up to the image. SQF might be great if output viewing parameters are fixed and known but I’ll take MTF any day.

    We’ve had this discussion before where yes, we can perceive high contrast targets at very low contrast levels e.g. MTF1 which would be more akin to a resolution “limit” but that is beside the point. In a typical photographic scenario where we do have noise and where detail is often not very high contrast, there’s a case to be made for specifying a higher contrast threshold (e.g. Roger’s own threshold of MTF30 or MTF20) for a more realistic “limit”. My own limit is lower as I do enjoy pixel peeping test charts but in any case, a lens that provides 16MP at System MTF50 is photographically FAR more useful than a lens that resolves 16MP at System MTF1 all else being equal. Or in more general terms, the higher the MTF curves, the better.

  • Nicholas Bedworth

    Great geeking!!! And keep in mind that the MTF is also function of wavelength.

    It’s influenced by the combined performance, as Roger points out, of the optics, color filtration technology on the sensor, pixel physics, readout noise, quantization error and on and on.

  • Brandon Dube

    Maybe I’ll write a blog post on that next weekend or the weekend after

  • Brandon Dube

    We measured up to 900 lp/mm for my thesis. The limit is about 5,000 lp/mm, but we could push that to 20,000 lp/mm with a different microscope.

  • Brandon Dube

    MTF-50 is not correlated to our perception of the quality of an image (that is what SQF is for). If I put a line up in front of you of objects at various contrasts, you would not find 50% contrast to be at all special, and would probably be surprised that with no noise you can perceive targets with 1, even 1/2% contrast.

  • Phil Service

    Roger, many thanks for these “geek” articles. One issue that you did not discuss is the argument that the sensor resolution (camera MTF) is limited by pixel size (or photosite spacing). For the Sony A7Rm4 (which seems to be the camera of the moment), sensor pixel size is about 3.76 microns. Given that it takes two rows of pixels to record a line pair, that translates to a maximum resolution of about 133 lp/mm (what I believe is the Nyquist freqency for this pixel size). And a lens image of 133 lp/mm sampled by that sensor would probably have a poor MTF, even if the image made by the lens had an MTF of 1.0. At frequencies greater than 133 lp/mm, the camera (and system) MTF would essentially be zero, regardless of how good the lens was, I think. So, it seems to me that one might be able to make a good argument that “excellent” lenses can ‘out resolve (most) cameras’, at least at high frequencies. Or perhaps a better way to put it is: at high frequencies, and with high-performance lenses, the camera is most likely to be the limiting factor on SYSTEM MTF.

  • Someone

    Is the mysterious lens by any chance the cancelled Fuji 35/1.0?

  • JordanViray

    In defense of the Perceptual Megapixels idea, it isn’t the number which is stupid but rather the poor interpretation of it. From what I understand, Perceptual Megapixels is a function of System MTF50 which is a perfectly fine measurement, i.e., I can expect to resolve 16MP at 50% contrast given a high contrast target on a given (my) camera with X lens. If I put Y or Z lens on it, the tested results are useful in showing what sort of improvements I can expect.

    Ideally we would have optical MTF and sensor MTF to calculate System MTF at any arbitrary contrast requirement; but while places like LensRentals provide a great deal of information about the former, the latter information is scarce.

  • Chris Perry

    Of course it would. But you can buy a fine prime lens for far less than $3500. The reality is, few types of photography benefit from ultra high resolution – certainly not photos of people.

  • DP

    > I just saw a thread for someone wanting to upgrade to the newest 60-megapixel camera, and all of his lenses were average zooms. I got nauseous.

    so you state that crappy zoom (before diffraction hits) will not yield more (even not that much more) resolution with 60mp behind vs for example 24mp 🙂 ?

  • A slight field tilt doesn’t affect center resolution as long as their’s no decentering. This one might have affected it a tiny bit, but probably not.

    When we first started this, my thinking was that by 50 lp/mm we were seeing a lot more variation in lenses than we do at 10 or 20, so at really high frequencies the variation might be too huge to test. That turned out not to be the case, especially as we stopped down to f/4 or f/5.6 for the majority of these tests. The machine will actually test to 300 lp/mm.

  • Dave Hachey

    I sense a topic for a future blog post. “OTTF – Everything you need to know.” I recently bought a Sony A7Riv, but so far I can’t say that it makes vastly better images than the earlier models. I’m still trying to get my head wrapped around the requirements to take 60 megapixel images. I have good glass, so I suspect it’s technique (or my advanced age). Sony keeps getting better and better.

  • Andreas Werle

    Thanks for sharing your data with us, Roger.

    The 105 mm Sigma obviously is not a TS-Lens, so I wonder why tilting doesnt affect its center resolution. I mean, this is a defect, the other lenses are not (so much) tilted. BTW, what happens when you look at a tilted 90mm Canon? 🙂

    Are 240lp/mm OLAF’s limit or why did you hesitate to do measurements at this high frequency?

    Greetings Andy

  • I don’t know, the M-mount wasn’t up for consideration. I learned enough doing the other tests to not speculate 🙂

  • Dave, I love that! Let’s make it Opto-Technique Transfer Function. But I agree, with today’s good gear, technique is probably more of a differentiator than a few more pixels or a slightly better lens. Oh, and I also agree about the Sony thing. There are lots of great lenses (and lots of not-great lenses) in FE mount. Some of these are GM.

    Since I’m planning on buying into a new system myself, I have a list of what lenses I’d get for each of those mounts, including FE. I might share that one of these weeks.

  • Raimo Korhonen

    What about (the legendary) Leica, then?

  • Dave Hachey

    “Roger’s rule: If you have either a crappy lens or crappy camera, improve the crappy part first; you get more bang for you $. I just saw a thread for someone wanting to upgrade to the newest 60-megapixel camera, and all of his lenses were average zooms…”

    It would be nice to know which lenses perform well on the latest 60 MP uber sensor. Sony sort of implies it’s their GM series of lenses, but I suspect they are trying sell us more expensive glass. When you get up into the 50+ MP territory, technique matters as much as MTF. How about a new acronym? TTF, Technique Transfer Function. I suspect we are reaching the point of diminishing returns.

Follow on Feedly